The Devil You Don’t Know
In The Devil You Don’t Know, Lindsay, Cleveland, and their guests discuss personal growth and development by taking chances and getting out of your comfort zone. Topics range from whimsical to serious and everything in between but are always relevant to growth and development.
The Devil You Don’t Know
Rise Above the Script: Why Your Brain Fights Your Biggest Breakthroughs a Conversation with Albert Bramante PhD
Have you ever found yourself on the verge of a breakthrough only to sabotage your progress? You're not alone. In this deeply insightful conversation with Dr. Albert Bramante, performance psychologist, talent agent, and author of "Rise Above the Script," we explore the hidden narratives that keep even the most talented individuals stuck.
Our brains are hardwired for comfort and safety—evolutionary adaptations that once protected us but now hold us back. Dr. Bramante reveals why we often fear success more than failure: success disrupts our identity, changes our relationships, and brings new responsibilities. This explains why actors might self-sabotage before big auditions or why entrepreneurs sometimes retreat just as their business begins to flourish.
Dr. Bramante shares a revolutionary perspective on people-pleasing, exposing it as disguised neediness rather than genuine kindness. This pattern, often accompanied by passive-aggressive behavior, undermines our authenticity and ironically leads to less respect from others. As he explains, "You can't help others if your own tank is empty"—a powerful reminder that self-care forms the foundation for truly helping others.
We also examine how criticism affects us, why negative feedback stings so deeply, and practical strategies for strengthening your self-image. Dr. Bramante's approach to overcoming procrastination offers a refreshing alternative to waiting until you feel "ready." By taking imperfect action and breaking goals into manageable steps, you can bypass the perfectionism trap that keeps so many talented people stuck.
Whether you're a creative professional, business leader, or someone who knows they're capable of more, this episode will help you identify the scripts running your life and give you practical tools to rewrite them. As Dr. Bramante reminds us, "You have all the answers within. You really have the strength within, and sometimes you just need someone to help you find that."
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
This is Cleveland and this is Lindsay.
Speaker 2:And this is another episode of the Devil you Don't Know. Today we are joined by Dr Albert Bramante, phd, who is a performance psychologist, talent agent and author of the groundbreaking book Rise Above the Script. With over 20 years of experience working in high-pressure worlds of in the high-pressure world of entertainment, entrepreneurship and business, dr Bramante has helped countless high achievers confront self-doubt, overcome fear of success and step boldly into their potential, whether you're a creative professional, a business leader or someone who knows that you're capable of more but are still having trouble breaking through this episode, which is one of the favorite things I like, because I believe in narrative therapy a great deal. But this episode will open your eyes to the hidden scripts running your life and give you practical strategies to rewrite them. So, without further ado, dr Bramante, take it away. I think that was an adequate opening for your bio. I think I got it.
Speaker 3:Thank you, that was that was amazing. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:So one of the things and Lindsay like, when we work with clients, one of the things that we often find are people who are stuck in their stories.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is something that so many people struggle with. That is something that so many people struggle with, and so when Cleve told me about this episode, I thought, wow, this is really interesting, because people really do fear making a change into something that they enjoy more than they're currently doing.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and change is scary, especially when you've been living clinging to the same identity for years, or even the same circumstances for a year. As you would be wired for comfort or wired to stay comfortable. I mean, that is the most addictive thing around and that is comfort. And to have that threatened or even disrupted slightly can be a bit scary, can be a bit overwhelming, and that's what leads us to fear change and even leads to even fear of success, even.
Speaker 2:Right, and let's talk about that piece right. A week ago that said that whenever they get to the point that they are successful in their in, in and the things that they're doing on in life, that all of a sudden they go backwards and they find themselves falling. That the, that the fear it's almost like the fear of success makes them fall backwards. So so why is it that people like fear success?
Speaker 3:it's, whatever the outcome is attached to it, whether it's going to be more scrutiny, more pressure, now a change in identity, so that whether it's getting that promotion so now you're having a new job title, your life, even though success is great we all want that, obviously but it is also a disruptor. Now, for most people it's a disruptor in a positive sense, but usually when you get a successful milestone in your life, it's going to change. Now, for some, that might even be relationships. They change. Certain relationships may be threatened by your success, and that is scary because we're not only do we like comfort, but we're also social animals, which means we crave social connection, we crave belonging, we crave love, and if that can be threatened in any way, that's going to be terrifying.
Speaker 3:And and again, keeping our brain is designed. Our subconscious mind and our brain is really designed to keep us safe, to keep us grounded and avoid danger, which is, again, that's what helped us survive. Human beings survive thousands of years. You know, survive human beings survive thousands of years. The only problem now is a lot of those fears that might've been threatening us thousands of years ago are no longer relevant today, but our brain is still the reptilian brain that we've had. So that is mainly why, again, is it corruption? The change in identity, change in relationship, and we don't realize we're going through it and most people don't even realize they have pure success. And I think if somebody can say that, that's an amazing level of insight, because most don't really get to that point yet until a lengthy process before't really get to that point yet, until you know, I let the process before they can get to the inside that really successfully scary, right right.
Speaker 2:One of my um colleagues, uh, where I used to work at, called it being a prisoner. Like you said, called it being a prison of comfort. But I think I saw you get ready to jump in linds well, I'm assuming.
Speaker 1:My meditation teacher, tara brock, says that human beings, we're programmed to not like unpleasant experiences, so we keep ourselves stuck by constantly living in our minds and having is.
Speaker 2:It's actually the responsibility of success that some people are worried and I think that you touched on that a little bit is once I'm successful, can I maintain the success? And so speak a little bit about that and maybe um in in in the world of entertainment, business or entrepreneurship, that you might've run into a client or that somebody that might've had that struggle.
Speaker 3:Sure, well, I, I wrote the book, you know, even though, like it's, it's relevant to all everybody, I wrote it and geared in mind of performing artists, actors. So a monumental success for an actor might be a Broadway show, a series regular on a TV show. The demands that are going to be placed on that actor in reality I mean I'm talking reality here is intense. If you're on Broadway, you're doing eight shows a week, plus aerosols, plus you have any press events and you, you know, you have uh tech and all of that. So that's six, seven days a week of work at 10, 12 hour days. If you're on a film or a tv set, you're talking again, average of 12, anywhere from 12 to 16 hours a day, right, sometimes six days a week, and so the demand that's going to be placed on you is intense. So if you have a family, that's going to be, that's going to be a strain on it. You know, if you're a marriage, it's going to be a strain on things, even temporarily.
Speaker 3:Now also, the cycle of the actor is very unpredictable because you know, let's say, you do land that lead in a TV series, it can get canceled, it's going to eventually go off the air. You know you go on a Broadway show, it's eventually going to go dark. What do you do now? Now you have to start over again and that can be scary. Because part of that scare is like when I I do get that up, up, up that scrutiny, now what's going to happen when an end? What am I going to do then? And so that can be a bit scary.
Speaker 3:And even with an entrepreneurial, let's say, you do get that promotion to a CEO or your company breaks, you know, six figures, seven figures, can you sustain it? That's going to be scary. And also, again, the identity. Now that's going to change. And now you're going to meet a spotlight which for a lot of entrepreneurs, it's scary, even though they're consciously chasing that Unconsciously. There's a lot more responsibility, there's a lot more demands that are going to be placed onto them, and that is scary. So it's not necessarily the idea of success, as I said, and we've both said now, it's the responsibilities that are attached to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I got a quick scenario that I want to throw at you Recently of mine a colleague of recently I said recently of mine recently a colleague of mine is working with someone who is a musician and this person is older now.
Speaker 2:They've been a musician now for three decades, they're in their 50s and something that their that their person that they're working with is struggling with is many, many, many years ago, when they were out West and they were a budding musician, Somebody wrote a hit piece on them like one of their first performances, and was like this is, this person is terrible and this is a young person that that thinks they know life and doesn't know about life. And this individual, as a performer, was never able to get over that. Right. It's still something like three decades later, haunts them, and one of the things that you brought up is in performance in the industry, there's always this need to prove yourself. So how would you help somebody get past? Like a negative review or a negative criticism and and we find that right lens even in in working with clients is that people, that family members or somebody might say something negative to them and they never get over it Right.
Speaker 1:Well, I say, I think and I'm sure you'd both agree is that the more that people tell us negative things or have judgments or criticism of us, the more that we actually believe those things. And it's, I think, a cycle, and especially when you think about mental health, that if somebody is in a really abusive or toxic environment for most of their life, you know, I think, that the likelihood that they're going to be diagnosed with a mental illness is probably much greater.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and so how do you help people rewrite those negative narratives? Right, the narrative that comes from the outside voice, that now the inside voice starts to believe.
Speaker 3:Well, the important thing is to validate their feeling, you know that, to understand how this can be tough, because we're naturally wired to to pay more attention to the negative. Negative thing like and I'll bring back again the evolutionary perspective here too our when we were, you know, in the hunter-gathering days, we had to be constantly vigilant of our environment and you know one long, you know movement could be dangerous, and so our brain is like wired to look for threats and look for the negativity. This is why, again, common experience you can get. You know that musician can get 20 compliments about you know, job well done and all of this and it was great. And then one person writes that scathing review where it's like you almost delete the other 20 good things that were said to you and now you're just drawn, glued to that negative review. So the only way to get over that is, first of all, acknowledge the feeling and validate that it can.
Speaker 3:You know, hurt and and I would also I don't know this musician's life, but I would almost kind of want to speculate did he grow up with critical marks in his family right already? So that might have just been like more of a confirmation thing that to him from all the voices he heard already, from his maybe critical families or the mother or father, and now he hears it from this external reviewer or this fan, and that just compounds it. That almost proves exactly what he was already feeling. Just compounds it. And it almost proves exactly what he was already feeling. So that the one thing that I think we would need to work on is first his own self-image, because the fact that if he was so bothered and still is 30 years later, I would be concerned with does he believe part of that himself already? And that would have to be addressed first. It's like, what is his self-image? Because a more confident musician would look at, would still, you know, be affected by that, but would take it as a grain of salt. It would be just one person's opinion to solve. It was just one person's opinion, yeah, and you know, also understand just human skill and human evolution. We, you know, we're doing something still constantly. We're going to get better 30 years later, right, I mean heck, even a year later.
Speaker 3:So then I would kind of say, okay, let's, let's unpack the review. Is there anything in there that could be viewing? You know, it may have been said. The method that it was said may have been incorrectly, but is there anything in there that you can use as feedback? Is there anything constructive there that you can say, okay, I'm going to do better next time, right? Maybe there's not, maybe I don't know, but that that would be a couple things I'd want to know. Yeah, one of the things that lindsey likes to say. Maybe I don't know, but that that would be a couple of things I'd want to know yeah, one of the things that lindsey likes to say, and I don't want to.
Speaker 2:I'll let lindsey say it.
Speaker 1:If it's not true, then well, if you don't believe it, why are you crying, right?
Speaker 1:So, like, if you, if someone says something to you and it doesn't matter to you, right, and you don't believe that about yourself, then you don't get upset about it.
Speaker 1:I talk about this with clients all the time, like I had a client going through a divorce and the one comment that you know when her partner at the time was said oh well, you're a terrible mother. That was the one thing she didn't need to talk about in therapy because she said I know I'm not a terrible mother, right, but it's like if we actually question certain things in ourself and and I actually Cleve and I were talking about this yesterday where I said sometimes, like, if he has a feedback or criticism for me, I just sit there and I have to say sometimes, well, you know, maybe this is, there is some truth in this, right, maybe this is how some of my behavior is perceived, and so, yeah, I mean, is it upsetting to me Sometimes? But you also need to take the feedback and reflect on it as well, right, yeah, yeah and that's the only way we're going to learn.
Speaker 3:And one of the things that kind of there's things I kind of go by, is that there's no, really no such thing as failure, only feedback. So what are the feedback that you're getting from this? And in that case you know, like she knows in in your client's case, she knows, she, this is a good mother. The only way that that remark would have stung or landed, you know, after he said that or she said that, it would have been the fact that she herself doesn't think she's a good mother. Right, if you're triggered by that, then there's something about that.
Speaker 2:So in that musician example, again, again, I'd go back to like, okay, let's talk about his own self-image, because if for something to sting that badly, there had to be some sort of truth that he saw on that right, right, and they and, and I think sometimes, um, and I've and I've told this to folks, especially when it comes to rewriting the script, right is are you being the author of your own story, when you are letting feedback from someone else that you know? And, like you said to both of you and I agree with you, dr Vermonte, and I agree with you, lindsay is like yes, why is this? Is this feedback necessary? Is this person, as somebody I talked to the other day realized that the person that gave them some negative feedback was a hater, literally just somebody that wanted them to get in their head, and I think those things are are important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I want to mention, you know, something that they're called projection, where if I'm judging or looking at or putting out a critical remark or even a a scathing remark at somebody, what might be the truth is that it has nothing to do with the other person. It's something within me and a lot of times even like what people who write like bad Yelp reviews at restaurants is it really? Are you really doing it to educate the person or are you just doing it to vent your own and feel validated in your own? You know, complaint in a sense, yeah, To feel that way, and so that would be another perspective and I would say look, we're not even one step up to date when we get into the spotlight. That's something that we have to get used to, that not everyone's going to be a fan of anything. I mean you even look at, um, so many gurus out there. You know there's a bunch of people love that. A bunch of people don't like that right, like I love mel robbins.
Speaker 2:And then I was talking to somebody the other day and they were like I can't stand Mel Robbins, and I think one of the things that I especially as I work with clients, and it's definitely, um and I'll let Lindsay jump in here too Uh, as you said, dr Bramante, you're not going to make everyone happy, right, and? And you wrote a book. I wrote a book recently and I remember the first one star review I got. I was so pissed off, right, and I was like what is this guy talking about? Everybody said this book is amazing, but then I realized, you know, like you said, dr baronte, not everybody is going to like my book. Right, and I'm sure you've right, you've had the same experience with your, with your, with your, and yeah again, go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, if it's consistently where it's like I'm, you know I'm we're constantly getting okay. I don't like this about the blog. I like okay. Is there any thing that I could do better for the next book? That are right now Okay.
Speaker 3:Well, most people feel this one because also, a lot of times, it has to do with perceptions too, like I could have all good intentions and I could be communicating with someone, but the words that I may say may land the wrong way to somebody and they may become offended. Now, what I have to do in that interaction is also respect that other person's worldview. Did I? Um, that might not have been my attention, but it landed the wrong way. So did I say it the wrong way? You know, did I say it incorrectly, even though my intention was clear? The truth is, this is why, again, sometimes the critical remarks can be feedback. Is there anything that maybe I wrote in a wrong way? Is it maybe the format of the book? It's the question of this. This is why you've got to look at consistency, not one outlier or two outliers, because they're going to happen. I mean, even look at someone who I respect, tony Robbins. Now, tony Robbins, one of the most popular motivational speakers, I would say, the same level as Mel Robbins, no relationship with him.
Speaker 3:But, if you notice, there's a lot of people who are devotees of Tony Robbins, but there's also a lot of people who are devotees of Tony Robbins, but there's also a lot of people who don't like Tony Robbins. Right, and you know that are, you know, very triggered every time you speak. Now, again, that's not Tony Robbins' responsibility. I would say, okay, what's triggering you about that? And is it something that you're jealous about? Maybe you're envious, maybe you're not. Maybe the fact that you're sending these messages or anybody saying these messages, are they triggering something within you? So it's coming across more consciously. You think I don't like this person or that person's annoying, their voice is annoying, it's not making any sense. So, again, the important thing is to not be reactive and you know, as actors especially, they want fans. Of course, yes, but you're not going to get. None of them's going to be a fan. Well, go ahead, lynn.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to say you know, along the lines of like, how we perceive things is that we don't ever react to a situation. We react to how we perceive the situation, and that's where you know couples and people struggle, because when you have one situation and you have, you know people in a relationship they often perceive it in two different ways, and then that's what causes conflict and I often work on that with a lot of my clients as well is that's actually how you perceive the situation, because nobody directly said to you oh I don't like this about you, or you are too much, or you talk too much and you do this too much. I was like you create that in your head.
Speaker 2:Right, and even in a good way I don't mean to cut you off and I'm going to cause you just both. Made me think and then I'll let you go Is even Floyd Mayweather. You said something about fans, right, and in Floyd Mayweather, the way he takes negative feedback from fans and from critics is he was like a fan that hates you and a fan that loves you are equally fans, right, and he was like a lot of times what he does with the fans or the critics that hate him. He was like those people actually fuel him and fuel his career, because you know, he knows that anything he does, they're never going to like him, but they're going to show up anyway to criticize and be critical because they don't like him and he and that's what drives him forward.
Speaker 3:So go ahead, dr Bramante well, yeah, two things that I want to say, even with like you know, even with like what howard stern, for instance, back when I was growing up, that was one of the most polarizing figures ever, but there were also a group of people that would, every day, would be like did you hear what howard stern said? Oh, my god, I'm so offended by it. I'm like in order for you to hear something. So therefore, you're helping him make the money. So, yeah, I would be like you know, if I was, I would start, I would continue to continue, because obviously you have fans now, um, going back to what lindsey was saying earlier, with the, the couple and the perception of things, and I I can't speak for every counselor, but I can often speak when I sometimes mediate conflicts. I often find her saying the same thing, but just in a different way.
Speaker 3:I'm like yeah, they feel the same way. And once they realize that because our biggest assumption we make is mind reading and jumping to those conclusions very fast, because very often when you hear these hominid melodies, it's like, oh, they're mad at me, they don't like it, and you say, well, did they say that? Well, no, Okay, but you jumped to that conclusion. The same thing with when actor I work with, when they don't get the role, sometimes they may internalize it. Well, you know that producer, that director, that cast character doesn't like me, and I'll come out and say, did they tell you that? No, yeah, okay, where did that come from?
Speaker 3:And that's where, like we and we have a tendency to all of us do that we jump to conclusions fast. It's like it's almost like we're predicting the ending of the book way before we even got there yet. So, it's just okay, you know, we're just, we're coming up with conclusions. Um, it's like you know, have you ever seen what's mean on social media without you know the couple's laying in bed and you have the wife saying I think he's cheating, thinking about the woman and he's the me. You know the couple's laying in bed and you have the wife saying I think he's cheating. Thinking about the woman and he's the meat. You know the captioners is like.
Speaker 2:I wonder if the sky is blue so that's what's really going on in his head, yeah what's really going on his head?
Speaker 3:what's going on in her head are two different things and we just assume that. And and that's where assumptions can get us, you know, into trouble. I'm sure you heard the assumption. When you make an assumption, you're making an ass out of you and me.
Speaker 2:Favorite episode of the Odd Couple. I was like I remember laughing my head off when Felix went to court and wrote that on the screen. I wrote that on a chalkboard, but yeah, that's, that's really good. What I want to ask you before we get into our next point is just tell us a little bit about you. Like what, how did you get into this work? What inspired you to write this book and what drove you to work to? You know, like work in this field, where working with actors and entrepreneurs and stuff- Well, I always I was drawn to just creative people.
Speaker 3:In general I was. I was even in high school. I was in a drama club and there were my undergraduate. I took some classes in theater and communications and I really just enjoyed being around actors. And then, you know, I've always also had a sensational curiosity about the brain and human behavior and relationships and communication. So I, when I was in high school, I always read voraciously, I mean just as a child. Even I was a reader, I still am, and that's kind of, like, you know, surreal to write a book because I love books.
Speaker 3:So what motivated me to write the book was when I first started my talent agency back 20 years ago. The one issue that kept coming up were these actors were self-sabotaging. These actors were shooting themselves in the foot. They were telling me consciously one thing they wanted to work, they were so hungry for work, but yet when auditions or opportunities would come up, they were telling you different stories that our actions were not lining up to their words. It was like there was a major disconnect because they were coming with excuses, they were being late to auditions, blowing off auditions, and I couldn't figure it out. So the book was kind of based on my phd work, my phd dissertation, because what I did for my, my investigation for my dissertation, was why do actors self-sabotage or like self-defeating behavior before my artist? And that kind of led me to down that rabbit hole of why.
Speaker 3:What led me to write the book you know, years later. So that pretty much was the motivation. So I've always been interested in the human mind. Now my initial background is I was going to be a clinical psychologist and that was like my one track focus for many years. I wanted to have the PhD, I wanted to have the doctor before name and I always wanted to teach too. I always found myself being a teacher. My mom was a teacher, my father was a football coach and my brother was a football coach. So I think the coaching and the teaching were all kind of in my DNA and so that led me to wanting to teach and wanting to inspire and work with other people. So I think it was naturally my blood.
Speaker 3:But I became more interested in more performance aspect of things because I tried, you know, I did a little bit of acting myself back in, you know, 23 years ago. I did a little bit acting and I I enjoyed it, but it wasn't for me, but I enjoyed being around actors just to create people, just entrepreneurs, creative uh. I felt like there was a genius in creativity. It was just an amazing energy to be around just creative people, and I still feel this way today, and so that kind of led me to starting my own business, because I think, as most entrepreneurs, myself included, I don't particularly enjoy working for other people. That's me, yeah. Now I work well with people you know, I will definitely say that and collaborate very well.
Speaker 3:I'm not a good person that works for people, because I like to kind of do things my own way, and I was the first. That was inadvertently and I didn't mean to do this again, because perception is key here. I just would find different ways to do things, which would sometimes look to employers or people in charge that I was trying to outshine them, and this is where perception is key here, because this is where I'm like okay, then if that's the case, I need to monitor how I present this so it doesn't look like I'm taking over, because that's a. You know, I was a type of person and I remember during one particular exchange when I was in grad school the professor we started talking about, you know, the topic of influence in the class and I had read several books by Cialdini so I was like, really knowledgeable, my hand went up every time. I was like, and cialdini said this, and I remember the teacher, in a very condescending tone, said why should I just give it a chalk and sit down? And I went, okay, message heard, and I just stayed, you know, kind of quiet towards that.
Speaker 3:Back now I could, you know, years later, could see how that could be perceived in the wrong way what I was doing. So that's why, again, you have to always look at, you know also how tough things are perceived. So, you know, that's sort of like where I think I kind of enjoy being on my own because I can do things like that, I can try new things, I can be innovative without again threatening others, without certain people feeling threatened. And again, it's not my job to worry about if everyone would be a threat because again, everyone has their own triggers. Even with this professor, maybe he felt I don't know how he felt outside, maybe he just felt threatened by people speaking up. He always wanted to be the type professor and maybe he felt I don't know how he felt outside. Maybe he just felt threatened by people speaking up and always wanted to be the type that wanted to be in charge.
Speaker 3:I don't know. You know that can be possible too. That's that's why go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, I was gonna say that's sort of like why perception is important to consider too yeah, and that's why I always tell folks and then I'll kick it over to lindsey too is you have to not only listen to the message but understand what. Listen to the message but also understand the motivation of the messenger, right, and once again, are you letting somebody else rewrite your script? When, when I first met Lindsay and this is and I and Lindsay can definitely tell you about this is you talked about self-sabotage, and then that also leads to self-doubt, and I and Lindsay was somebody who always I had a nice, comfortable, cozy job at NBC universal for 13 years and I made pretty good money, but I wasn't happy there. Now, lindsay can definitely tell you about my self-doubt and my self-sabotage and then go ahead, lindsay. Well, do you mean when you left, when I left before then, and then also how that?
Speaker 1:Well, right, I mean, you know, he, he Well, I always say Cleve is like a reformed people pleaser, now, Right. And I always used to tell him that your yes doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to say no. And so everybody that he worked with knew that if they asked him to do it, that he would do more and more and more and more. But never any more money, right, but just more time. And there was this choosing of work over everything else, because there was so much fear, I think, in him, I think as a black man and working in an environment, you know, with all white men, and I think that he got to a point where he just felt that he had to do this to fit in.
Speaker 1:And then, finally, the complaining was so much here that I said if you're going to keep complaining but not change anything about it, then there's really no reason for us to even talk about this anymore. I said we don't need to talk about this and tell the same story every single day. And then, you know, it got to the point after a lovely two week vacation where it's like the last day and here's Cleve in the ocean with a pina colada going. I don't want to go back there tomorrow. I can't go back there tomorrow, I don't want to go back there. And I said well then I think you know the answer for yourself and you know, but but it takes.
Speaker 1:I think the hardest part is that people actually have to come to that conclusion on their own. I had been telling him for years you're unhappy, just leave, just leave. But you know, people can't really take that risk until they are ready to acknowledge it themselves.
Speaker 2:Right and I kick it to you and then, like I said, it goes back to that self-doubt, that self-sabotage along with that self-doubt. And so, dr Bramante, when you're working with actors of entrepreneurs or business people who not only have that quality of self-sabotage that you talked about, but now actually doubt themselves, have come to believe, like that musician, that I, maybe I don't, maybe, you know, maybe I was terrible at that audition, or maybe that critic that came from me was right, or maybe all these people are right, how do you help people work with their self-doubt and break these cycles of both self-doubt and self-sabotage?
Speaker 3:Well, the important thing is to recognize that that is really coming from within. It's not. We have to separate the comments from the actual thoughts, again educating the client that you're getting triggered because these are your own beliefs and you're hearing something. Because, again, this is how misunderstandings happen. You may hear a remark, but if you have a negative self view of your remark, you may perceive that remark a lot more critical than what it is.
Speaker 3:And a lot of times, even when I sometimes get reactive on something, I'll go back and I'll maybe read that email or message. I'm like oh, why was I getting so triggered by this? I'm like they said this X, y and Z Okay, I may not agree with it, but they have a valid point. And then I'm calmed down and then I can respond. So the one thing is not to be reactive and to kind of um, take what is said, you know. Then the first of all, we have to change our self-perception. That's the major thing that we have to do first and work on the self-present, again, in your case by saying learn to say no, because you can make that uh assumption, or people can even argue that people pleasing is a form of self-sabotage yeah, because you constantly compromise your authenticity to be accepted by people and and the ironic thing I myself was the way.
Speaker 3:I was a criminal people pleaser. The one lesson that I think I've learned from this is that I was pleasing people to get respect from them and to get admiration from them. I wanted them to like me, but I also think it had the opposite effect. Mm-hmm, it didn't help. It didn't help. I actually think it caused even them to resent me even more and lose respect for me.
Speaker 3:And so the important thing is being okay with yourself to set boundaries and being okay. It's okay to say no, it's okay to stand up for yourself. And so the first thing is kind of like ego strengthening when you eat, strengthen your own ego. You can then look at those separate that as just feedback. It's not, those are just comments, and I probably might even I know this might sound strange, but I might say, okay, let's pull up that article together, let's talk, because I wouldn't be surprised to find that what was actually said and his perception of the completely different right Like, okay, this is what was wrong, but this is just his opinion. You know. This is because really any critic and this is what I tell my actors all the time, even though they may write for a publication. A critic is only voicing their opinion. Mm-hmm, that's all. It is Just like you and I. I think we could go see a movie and one of us likes it, one of us doesn't like it.
Speaker 1:We were talking about that last week when we went to the movies. Actually, and I say that all the time. You have to take reviews to the grain of salt. There's always going to be somebody with a different opinion. I say that about, for example, when we go on vacation and I read hotel reviews. If you read a review on a place, if you actually read the details of the reviews, many of them don't even apply Right. Last year we were away and someone gave this place a one star review because you couldn't walk to a supermarket from it. I was like that's not even a review of the actual establishment, right? So people, people just have this way of you know, if they're negative and they want to find something negative, they're going to find something negative.
Speaker 2:Right, and to both your points and because I want to move on to the next piece, is the mindset shift that separates thriving professionals from struggling ones. Right, and I want to go back to something that you said, dr Maranti, which is about changing your mindset. I've worked and like getting rid of that nice guy or nice girl attitude and realizing that people pleasing is not the method. I've I've worked with folks and I've and I've actually come to learn that myself, like you have, as Lindsay has tried to teach me but I've worked with folks that are very resistant to this idea of looking out for themselves and that they feel like, oh, I'm going to be a bad person and people are not going to like me. So how do you help people shift that mindset from, from that Right? Cause I think it's I think the point you make in your book. It's not about the talent that you have, it's how you thrive through the setbacks, the challenges and the growth. So go, go ahead. How do you help people change that mind shift?
Speaker 3:Well, the important thing about the mindset is like, how are you going to help other people if you're empty? You know, a car can't take you from point A to point B in an empty tank of gas. So when you go on an airplane, what do they tell you first, In the need of oxygen, put the mask on yourself before you help somebody else. So if, even if I'm gonna be the person who identifies as the helper, I want to help other people, I don't want, I want to be selfless. Well, if I'm injured or incapacitated, I'm not helping anybody. And so that there's the key where I think a lot of people think, if I look out for myself, I'm being selfish. No, you're, you're, you're actually, you know, really being selfless because you're now, when you look out for yourself, you're making yourself stronger, so now you can help other people.
Speaker 3:And you know, I often kind of like when people say, well, um, you know, I think a lot of people confuse with nice people pleasing, because I think, like, being nice and needy are two fine lines, right, you know, like, are you really? You know, because when I hear people self-proclaiming those, I'm nice person, I'm a very nice person. A lot of times I often, you know, because, myself included, I'm calling on myself on this too Are we really nice or are we just being needy? You know, we want people to like us, because one of the things about people pleasing you know, I've done research on recovery One of the things about people-pleasing and I've done research on recovery, people-pleasing myself too is there's often a lot of passive aggressive in there too, because we start to even subconsciously, start to resent the fact that I'm doing all this for other people and I'm not getting it returned.
Speaker 3:And so there's that pattern of well, I do all of this for you and you're not helping me out, and it could come across as passive, aggressive, long counter, passive aggressive people in our lives or passive aggressive, interactive. Um, you know, I remember I once got a. You know cause? I, as an agent, I get a lot of emails from actors looking for representation and I can't nearly take on, you know 20% of what I get.
Speaker 3:So I often don't have time. I just kind of keep them in my inbox and store them about if I'm moderately interested. And remember I get this one act. You know she's submitted once like six months ago, and then I get an email later. I want to thank you for all the value that you you know you um provide for actors and I'm thinking like, oh, this is nice. And she's like but even though you never called me again, and I'm like okay, that's a little passive, aggressive super passive aggressive.
Speaker 3:I'm like this is ultra passive, aggressive, okay. But I just want to really I really appreciate you. I'm like, okay, I'm not going to respect because I'm like this is like a really extremely passive, aggressive email and I don't even realize how it came across. She might not have, I don't know, I don't. I can't begin to assume her intentions, but all I know is that this is a really passive, regressive email, that if you approach a leader in my day, you're never going to get right people to do that.
Speaker 3:So if she was a people pleaser and she was sending out emails like that, I wonder why she's not going to get any attention or any positive what she wants or goal. So this is why, again, we have to really monitor how we're acting and that's why you often see a lot of people who are people pleasers or people that sometimes proclaim and always say I'm the nice guy, I never get anything, or I'm the nice guy, I never get anything, or I'm the nice gal and no one respects me. Sometimes you got to take a step back and do an audit. Are you really doing that as you say you are? Because there may be some slight passive, aggressive things you're doing that are turning people off.
Speaker 2:I like to call myself a nice asshole, right. Where you have to be this combination of the two, where I'm nice, but when I need to tell you to shut the hell up or it's not working, working for me. That I'm going to be clear and I think to your point, dr baronte, that that is that that is vital, right? Even dr robert glover talks about that in his book.
Speaker 2:No more, mr nice guy, this need to to balance that you actually come across, and you put it very clearly and very well that you come across as needy and not nice, and people don't want to mess with a needy person, right? As much as people hate bill shatner for the time that he was on star trek, you know. And he realizes he's like, yeah, I was an a-hole, but he knew what he wanted. He, even though he stepped on people's lines and later on in life realized like, okay, I do need to be less asshole, more nice, but he still got what he was the lead, he was the actor. Even lynyrd neimoey was like, yeah, he was like that, what he was the lead, he was the actor.
Speaker 3:Even lyndon nemo was like, yeah, he was like that because he was the star of the show, right, you know yeah, and, and that's, that's the way too, I mean, and even like, as you both know, when we work with people in the coaching sphere or the uh, their therapeutic sphere, there comes a time where, yes, we have to be caring and and, and you know, concern empathy, but there's also a time where we have to step above that and sometimes call people out on there. Yeah, we have to challenge, challenge which may not, you know, which essentially, as you know, is breaking rapport temporarily, right, because no one likes to be challenged. And that's what, like, I was even sometimes talking with actors who go for coaching yeah, I think coaching and they would say my coach, my coach triggered me. I was doing all these things and I said you're paying him Right? Yes, ok, are you paying him to be your friend? Are you paying him to tell you how great you are? Are you paying him to become a better actor?
Speaker 1:right, yeah, well, and I think with me, with clients too, I often have, um, when I do challenge them, it either goes you know what it goes one of two ways they end up doing great work, or they do what I had a client do recently which was just disappear because she didn't like to be challenged. And then you know, a month later, after I hadn't seen her send me a text or an email about how wonderful her life was going and I was like that's fantastic, I'm so glad, even though I know it's quite the opposite for her. But you know, I mean I don't really need to challenge her in that, you know, in that realm right now, she, she. You know you can learn a lot about your clients by how they react to what you say to them right and I think go ahead yeah.
Speaker 3:No, it's about getting that rapport when you manage it, for it's like you match where the client is coming from. So if they already have that like type a personality, that's why sometimes you often hear coaches like even mel robinson does her a podcast you know we don't see the gentle person, sometimes she'll personality. That's why sometimes you often hear coaches like even Mel Robbins on the Harder podcast. We don't see the gentle person. Sometimes you'll be worried up. Yes, with people, yes, and because they're dominant people already themselves.
Speaker 2:Right, yes. So as we move on and this is our final as we, as we come into time, this is our final piece is fear of success and procrastination. I know and this is one of the things that Lindsay used to always get on me, because Lindsay is more of a risk taker- and I am also a great procrastinator.
Speaker 2:But you're more of a risk taker than I am is waiting until you feel ready. If you have a client that comes to you and is like, oh, you know what, I'm not, I'm not ready for that big role, or I'm not ready, how do you help them break free of that cycle of I have to wait until.
Speaker 3:I'm ready. Well, the idea here is the question when will that be? When will you be ready? Next week, next month? And then I have to question is something really deeper going on? Because with procrastination and perfectionism are two very similar things and even as that you have to wait. Well, I'm not going to do this piece of content, I'm not going to go live and be like no to this. And then when you do learn that it's like, well, now I need to really learn this, and then eventually you're not going to do anything.
Speaker 3:And the point is really about starting in perfect, taking that imperfect action, because it's better than taking none at all. I can relate to this because I was procrastinating for many years and writing my book and one of my fears, you know, was my fear of well, I don't know if I'm going to be prepared to say all this and I don't know I may get all these one or two star reviews. And it wasn't until I had another coach kind of do the same thing and brought me and say, well, you'll never know if you don't write it. The coach kind of do the same thing in front of me and say, well, you'll never know if you don't write it and that was like okay, well, you know.
Speaker 3:So the idea is to take action and when you help someone this is again my being that challenging mindset is saying okay, when are you going to start? And tell me a date and hold them accountable. You know like there's that accountability. Put it in your calendar. When are you going to start that? And you break it down into small steps. I mean one of the problems. I think a lot of us, when we set goals or or set ideals, we set them too high, too fast and too high rather than you know, cause. You'll see people like the New York I need to lose a hundred pounds to get in shape. Okay, great, that may be the end goal, but what are you going to do in between that? Don't still really plan that.
Speaker 1:So they spend all this money in this gym membership and they think I'm going to go seven days a week to the gym and then two or three weeks later they're done yeah, I think what we do is and this is something I actually have been working on myself this year, because I've been a little bit on a weight loss and fitness journey and the realization has to be that it's not all or nothing, and I had to say I'm not going to do things that I don't like to do, yeah, because that's not going to ultimately get me to my goals.
Speaker 1:So I'm not going to go and jump in with some trainer and then be gasping for air and hating it and you know, once the pack of sessions runs out, never going back again. Or, you know, and I'm not just going to sit here and lose weight by just eating. You know vegetables and salads all day long and you know very little else, because that's just not realistic for me in the long term. And I think that's something you know with clients too, that they want to just get from A to Z in. You know two sessions and you know say, oh, I'm fine now, but then you know then in six months they're in a crisis again and they're calling you back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know. Going back to the examples, you know I want to get the point a to z. Well, there's 24 letters in between, right? So right now you're focused. You would get a, b, so maybe that might even be. I'm gonna do 10 minutes of walking a day, okay. Once you did that, then go to c. I'm now gonna do 50.
Speaker 1:You know, that's what I started with 10 minutes one time around the block, because I was convinced I hated exercise and so every day I put on my sneakers and I went around the block and then, before you know it I you know it got easier because I started to lose weight and then my back wasn't hurting and I had a good pair of sneakers. And now it's. You know, we easily can walk 30 to 60 minutes now and and it's enjoyable, whereas if I made myself do that from day one, I would have given up and it's enjoyable, whereas if I made myself do that from day one, I would have given up Right, and that's what's been my goal.
Speaker 3:It's like for me, you know, even if it's just like, like when I was writing and progressing and he was writing the book, I said to myself I'm just going to write.
Speaker 3:You know, the one thing that got me to really take action was to A just not judge myself and, b to set a goal where I'm not going to I don't have a timeline what I'm going to complete the book, but what I'm going to say is I'm going to block out certain minutes a day of writing and I'm going to write for that amount of time. And then, and when I did that, I didn't say I'm going to write a chapter a day. I didn't say I was going to write a chapter a day. I didn't say I was going to write, you know, the book by in two weeks. I just said I'm going to write a certain number of times a day and I, you know, before I even knew it, I had the mind to stop doing it Before I even knew it.
Speaker 3:And I think the point is by breaking goals down into small steps, and this all helps us avoid procrastination in a sense, or avoid if you start taking small action and putting things on your calendar and holding yourself accountable or other you, other people in your life accountable. I'll have this done. I'll have you know certain number of of outfit done within a week and and you say when you know, not next year, not when, like actual date, because someday is a big problem that people have.
Speaker 2:It's like I'll do this someday, mm-hmm, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think those are good points. You know, with that, you know what we're going to. We'll wrap it up no-transcript.
Speaker 3:Well, you can definitely connect with me on LinkedIn, albert Bramante or Instagram at Dr Albert Bramante. In Albert Bramante, or Instagram at Dr Albert Bramante. You can buy my book on Amazon. I highly encourage it. It's available as a paperback, ebook and audio book and I'd love to connect. You know, reach out, send me a message and you know we'll talk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, also, you forgot to mention your website, albertbramantecom, where you can like you. I'm looking at all your hypnosis audio connections, uh collections, and I think folks would love this on anxiety, on addictions, on anger management, um, body image, confidence, fear and phobias, um, and all your packages look pretty, are pretty reasonably priced.
Speaker 3:so if you yeah, and and it's one way, like, if, like, I would highly encourage you to try to download some of the recordings, because it gives you the experience of hypnosis in a very reasonable way and you pop them in, you listen with your headsets on and they're not long darling, like 15 to 17 minutes you know they're less than that than 20 minutes most of them and it's very, very effective, and you just do that on a daily basis yeah, these are.
Speaker 2:These are pretty good. You got money. Um, uh, the hypnotic techniques for financial success. Uh, hypnosis to rate guilt, to erase guilt and embrace riches. The tranquil road, financial Freedom Very extensive stuff here. So I definitely would recommend, if you folks are looking, if you enjoyed our conversation with Dr Bramante, go to albertbramantecom. He's got a whole bunch of audio hypnosis packages available there for the nice price of $19.99 are the majority of them. So I definitely would think, if you like the conversation that we had here, follow them there, dr Bramante, before we go. Anything that you'd like to add or any closing words of encouragement to our audience?
Speaker 3:Well, I would say just that you have all the answers within. You really have the strength within, and sometimes you just need a coach or someone to help you find that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, that's a good one. So this has been a really exciting and insightful episode. Thank you, thank you. Thank you for agreeing to come on to the show. I know it was a long time. Thank you, no, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, Thank you. Thank you, and it's been a long time coming. Yeah, I know we had originally conversed way long ago back in March, March, April but Lindsay and I have been like on a world tour where we were in Nevis, Then we went to oh my God. Then we were in Tortola for about a month and we're working on our own projects and been pretty busy.
Speaker 1:But thank you. A lot going on, but yeah. So I'm glad that we were able to connect, and we have to make time for the things that we enjoy doing, and this is one of those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and talking to folks like you, we enjoy doing it and we definitely would love to have you back. I would love to come back Let me know when and I'll be back Another time, so we'll definitely do that.
Speaker 3:So with that being said, this was Dr Burma. Well, I'll let you, I'll let you outro yourself. This has been.
Speaker 2:Cleveland and Lindsay and Dr Albert Bramante, and this has been another episode of the devil you don't know. Thank you,
