The Devil You Don’t Know
In The Devil You Don’t Know, Lindsay, Cleveland, and their guests discuss personal growth and development by taking chances and getting out of your comfort zone. Topics range from whimsical to serious and everything in between but are always relevant to growth and development.
The Devil You Don’t Know
Jack Ruins Everything: When Adult Children Hijack Your Peace
Cleveland and Lindsay explore the problem of adult children controlling their parents' lives, sparked by overhearing a family vacation conversation about how "Jack ruins everything." They examine the balance between loving your adult children and preventing them from disrupting your peace and happiness.
• Adult children are guests in your home, not entitled residents
• Setting boundaries doesn't mean you don't love your children
• Cultural differences in the Caribbean demonstrate greater respect and reduced entitlement
• Reciprocity is crucial in all relationships—adult children must contribute to the household
• Your peace should not be sacrificed because someone else can't get their life together
• Natural consequences are necessary for growth—shielding adult children prevents maturity
• You can have compassion for yourself while still loving your family members
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
This is Cleveland. This is Lindsay.
Speaker 2:And this is another episode of the Devil. You Don't Know, lindsay, what are you going to be talking about today?
Speaker 1:We are going to be talking about how Jack ruins everything. Oh my God, the trouble with letting adult children rule your life.
Speaker 2:I know we just talked about families last week, but this was a topic that we had to talk about because we were where are we?
Speaker 1:first day of vacation. So we were in tortola. I mean, since then we were there a week ago, spent a good amount of time there. Then we came over to well, we went to anagata, we turned around from anagata and came to virgin gorda, where we now and we'll go back to Tortola on Saturday for another eight days. But our first day in Tortola. So we flew into St Thomas, immediately, got a taxi to the Red Hook Ferry Terminal, with the one ferry in the afternoon, to the west end of Tortola, the west end of Tortola, the west end of Tortola, where we would pick up our rental car and then, you know, spend the week. So we did that and it was our first day, and we got over there and I thought, oh, it's a little bit late, it was about maybe 3.30, 4 o'clock.
Speaker 2:Yeah, our friend Glenn Seaside Bar was already closed, but he was like but he made us a cocktail anyway. He made us a cocktail anyway, because we were regulars.
Speaker 1:And then we decided that we would just get a quick shower and go out to our favorite place, indigo Beach Bar. But first we had our cocktail and we dropped our stuff in the sand and we went into the Cane Garden Bay in the water. I said I have to swim, I love swimming in the ocean. I said I have to swim, I love swimming in the ocean. And as soon as we got in the ocean there was a family there where all the women were gathered, talking about how Jack, who was the son of one of them and the brother of all the others Jack ruins everything. And my question was if Jack ruins everything, why in the hell did they bring Jack on vacation?
Speaker 2:Why is Jack?
Speaker 1:here and Jack was an adult, adult kid like older than our adult kids, right, yeah, but Jack ruins everything, was the message that kept coming out of all of that.
Speaker 2:And what was funny is the young lady said and I don't want to say I'll say young lady, but she's about my age, but I'm gracious to everyone who's my age she said this is my favorite place that I get to come to.
Speaker 1:One time a year. One time a year and Jack ruins everything.
Speaker 2:And Jack ruins everything.
Speaker 1:And then I thought wow, this is an issue because we do sometimes let adult children control our lives.
Speaker 1:Very much so I had a very difficult time relaxing today in virgin gorda, where it is, by the way, very beautiful, very beautiful. I mean, what a beautiful and amazing place. And so I I had a little trouble because, uh, tim huckleberry, tim, okay gave himself away again. I remember, if you remember, last time we were in Nevis he did the Dewey riding without the license. Well, now today he calls us To ask how to use the grill Because he's having some Friends over.
Speaker 2:Forgetting that I have a camera to the house.
Speaker 1:But also forgetting that we said no guests For the guests.
Speaker 2:But as.
Speaker 1:He just does what he wants.
Speaker 2:But, as our friend Eddie and Coco Maya, which is a wonderful bar, If you ever find yourselves in Virgin Gorda which you should find yourselves in Virgin Gorda please visit Coco Maya.
Speaker 1:Coco Maya is beautiful. Well, we are staying at a place called Guava Berry Spring Bay, which is wonderful, which is like a compound of villas, I guess. Is that how you would describe it?
Speaker 2:It looks like at one point this was like a timeshare that failed, but that they now sell as rental properties.
Speaker 1:So if you've ever been to Virgin Gorda, there's a place called the Baths. It's a national park and there are these massive boulders the size of buildings that are just sitting in the sea and in the sand and it's so beautiful. And these people have this property where all the villas are built, leaving the boulders where they were. They didn't move any of the boulders which is outside of our room. If you remember, this morning the big chicken jumped on the rock and then onto our deck and I was not sure how it got here.
Speaker 2:I think that chicken wanted us to know that this was his place, her place.
Speaker 1:Right. So the the boulders are massive. I mean, they're the size of houses and they're. It's just beautiful. I mean, what a beautiful place. And so we're staying at this place. We have our own one bedroom villa here, with this amazing deck, with an incredible view of the sunset, and if you look now, you could see a little bit of light in the distance from some boats.
Speaker 1:I see it, but it's. I mean, what an amazing place. Let's talk about it for a minute, because when we checked in first of all, she said to us that we shouldn't have taken her rental car on the ferry.
Speaker 2:We were going to talk about that next episode because we don't need Denzel Klein from Denzel Klein Rentals by the time this episode comes out, we'll actually have been back to Tortola and nobody will have known the wiser.
Speaker 1:But we were going to take the ferry over from Anagata to Tortola and then quickly jump on another ferry, but we were out at the Indigo Beach House one of our favorite spots Indigo Beach Bar and Indigo Beach House Everybody's favorite beach house. It's called Indigo Beach House.
Speaker 2:If you ever come to the Cane Garden, you need to visit.
Speaker 1:You need to go see Vishal Vishal. Vishal is a trip. Yes, he is. So when we were at Indigo, this other couple was telling us that they take the car barge over here to Virgin Gorda PG. So she said we just needed to take the car barge and the car barge guy got so annoyed with you he stopped responding Because if you've ever been to the BVI. They're stuck in about the 80s to 90s and they have a zero desire to come to the future.
Speaker 2:I think like 1950s, where it's like man, just show up with your car on the dirt road and give us cash.
Speaker 1:And give us cash. And give us cash. Don't make a reservation, just show up and bring cash. I mean, here's the thing. I just want to just back up a minute, because we had a reservation to stay a couple of nights in Anagata and then a couple nights here, and at no time did we receive a confirmation for the payment of our lodging with the dates that we were coming. And so, going to Virgin Gorda and going to Anagata, I'm finding I'm contacting the people to remind them that I paid to stay here. Yeah, and they're like all right, see you later, yeah.
Speaker 2:And one of the crazy things about this trip right, and about this vacation and to bring it back to the topic really quick of Jack ruins everything and we will definitely go off and tell you folks about a vacation Is this is possibly, and we've been a lot of places We've been. Listen, I don't even need to go. Lindsay's a world traveler, she's been. I want to say Bora Bora. Where are some of the places you've been?
Speaker 1:I mean I've been to Australia, australia. I've been to the South Pacific, I've been to the West Coast. I've been to the west coast, I've been, you know, all over the united states. I love the caribbean, it's by far my favorite well, I haven't done a lot of european travel aside from, say, london. I don't really have a desire to, because I just love the caribbean no, this is one of the most virgin.
Speaker 2:Gorda is perhaps one of the most beautiful, luscious islands I've ever been in. The british virgin islands, hands down, if I know a lot of americans like dominican, I know they like antigua, I know they don't bring people here, I know they love their all-inclusives people here don't bring. I know, but this is an amazing place and it's amazing, and so when? We were in the ocean, but it's remote and it's hard to get here.
Speaker 2:It's very hard to get. So when we were in the ocean and we heard this group of women say that Jack ruins everything, it really it brought up something in me, so vitriolic in that we let our adult children our. Here's the thing and I think you've said this before, lindsay that when someone until they are 18 years old, you're obligated to them, but once they are 18 years old and over, they are a guest in your house.
Speaker 1:Adult children are a guest in your home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, adult children are a guest in your home. Yeah, adult children are guests in your home. So if you are an astute listener, you will see that the nighttime noises that were previously in this recording just our recording got ruined by a phone call from home, um, in regards to some things that were not taking place in the home. So we had to stop the recording. Deal with, uh, take a couple of days.
Speaker 1:I spazzed out a little bit more than a little bit.
Speaker 2:There's a little bit of spazzing going on in regards to uh timuckleberry, but it was ironic because it just was the point of. What we were talking about is that you should not have an adult child in your house that is ruining your time in the house, and so that is what today's topic will be about. Is Jack ruins everything.
Speaker 1:You may hear some chickens outside, because I've been hearing them all morning. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, you know, I think there's something that I said to you yesterday is that you can. You can have boundaries with people, and you know, it doesn't mean that you don't love them if you make them go live somewhere else. Right, sometimes you have to have compassion for yourself as well and take care of yourself, and when somebody is interfering with so much, they also need to be held accountable.
Speaker 2:Right, right. I think one of the things and you've seen me struggle with this, with my own family in the last couple of weeks of folks saying, oh, cleveland is different and Cleveland is acting, you know, kind of a certain way and that's not the case at all, and I think there's this problem in families, that families believe that you must tolerate the behavior of other people in the family just on the basis that they're family.
Speaker 1:Yes, that comes up a lot. Does that happen with you with clients a lot, I get that a lot with clients all the time, and it's true.
Speaker 1:You know we think that. Well, I don't think this way, but, generally speaking, most people think that you have to keep people in your life if they're family, because if not, then you know you've done this terrible thing, and I always remind people well, would you keep a friend in your life that treats you in this way? You know and listen, I love all of my children. One of them is really having a big failure to launch right now Huge, huge, huge, huge, and it's really interfering with me being able to keep my piece.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and and. What's interesting about it is we've met, uh, we've met so many friends, uh, as we've been out here in the uh, british Virgin islands for the last uh, this is going to be the end of our third week, um out here, and that's why we've missed. That's why this time we've missed recordings for or for good reason, but we have a batch coming up for you when we come back. But we've met some friends out here last night and we went to dinner with them Wesley and Brandon and I said to Brandon last night I was like this is the thing that people who are adults in your family do not understand. If this were a job and you exhibited this behavior at work, you wouldn't get a choice, jack, to ruin everything, you would be fired.
Speaker 1:Fired Right thing, you would be fired Right. I mean, that's the struggle that we're having, I think, right now at home is that there's this fine line between us, you know, kind of giving him some space but then him taking way too much right, like we give a little and he takes a lot. And you know, what happened the other night was I mean first of all, like just had a party at the house and basically called us and gave himself away which I'd said earlier and then proceeded to leave a huge mess in the yard of food everywhere and then blamed his brother for putting the dogs in the backyard and that was why the dogs ate the, the food that was left outside. It's like the dogs go outside, it is their yard just as much as it's ours. And just yesterday you were peeking around the house on the camera and he still hasn't cleaned up from this party that he had Right.
Speaker 2:And and one of the interesting things about this generation that we live in, I, I I got to see if my favorite author, jason Pargin, responded back to me. But I was on Jason Pargin's sub stack as I was looking at some stuff on my sub stack and he posted a. He posted a thoughtful idea that said that every generation says that the one after them is messed up. Oh, they don't have the moral fiber, they don't have the social graces they don't have. And I actually argued back with him. And I didn't argue back, I just posited back to him.
Speaker 2:I was like hey, jason, you know, a lot of your books are about change and it is about, you know, characters who are slackers, who are self-centered, who go through traumatic journeys to change Right. But I would argue that many of the people in this generation many, not all, because we've met some hardworking kids, I mean, we've got very entitled, yes, but many people in this generation are very entitled and you have to, as as Lindsay. I'll give Lindsay credit first and foremost, as Lindsay pointed out to me, as a parent, as a stepfather, and as my own son, my oldest son, hunter, pointed out to me after interacting with our Jack, it was like hey man, I'm sorry to tell you this. I know you don't want this for him, but he is going to have to suffer.
Speaker 1:I've said the same thing His life is too easy and you know, this is the problem. We tiptoe around kids and that was the whole thing. I think that was happening that day in the ocean and when we were listening to that family talk about how Jack ruins everything. And then I did kind of feel bad because I thought, like Jack is off at the bar having a drink and he has no idea that the whole family is just sitting here bad mouthing him, yeah, but you know what? Now, when he comes back, nobody says anything to him.
Speaker 1:And I think that's where we go wrong is not having open communication. We, we talk to, you know, to Huckleberry Tim, all the time, all the time about things, and you know you give the lectures. The problem is is he's just not getting it now. So he needs to go somewhere else and not get it, because it's too easy at our house and you know I can't be babysitting. You know I mean when we are coming away.
Speaker 1:Or we were going away a couple of weeks ago for the weekend and the other two were fighting over who was going to be responsible for babysitting him, because the queen mom was like I babysat him the whole school year. I need time off, and he's the oldest, right and he's just, and the things that he calls us for it's like there's. There's like this disconnect and I can't you know. I imagine that he struggles with feeling good about himself because he hasn't found his path yet, but the thing is is he's not doing anything, you know, anything that's asked of him, and that's where that sense of entitlement comes in. You talk to him about what you need and I think this is a common theme in families and in this kind of dynamic but it's you talk to him, you tell him what you need. He agrees, and then he just doesn't do it and then he gets mad at you, yes, and, and.
Speaker 2:and here's the crazy thing that families do Right and I can and and I've come from like an enmeshed culturally. I have come from an enmeshed family, from an enmeshed black family, from an enmeshed Puerto Rican family, where there was a time in my first marriage that I was having a great deal of difficulty with my first wife, right, and everybody knew that I was having a great deal of difficulty with my first wife for multiple reasons. She had multiple demons, multiple issues, multiple things that she did not want to work out. Thankfully, she has moved on in her life and she's done a lot of work on herself and she's changed a lot of those things. But that was after she had to hit rock bottom several times. I remember my father saying, hey, she's not going to change until she hits rock bottom.
Speaker 2:And she hit rock bottom and then somehow another proceeded and this is what I think huckleberry, tim and eventually jack are going to do. And they actually went beyond rock bottom, didn't even know it was a fucking. I didn't even excuse me, I didn't even know it was a. It was a possible thing to go beyond rock bottom, right, but what her mother calls me and says at this point, this is going on, uh, 20 years ago says to me hey, we all know that she struggles and her father struggles also, and we've continued to tolerate that struggle. We've continued to tolerate him destroying our house, destroying our home, destroying our life, because he can't get his demons right.
Speaker 2:This is literally what this woman said to me, and you should do the same thing too. And I said back to her how is that working out for you? And you know who, who, no longer you know who actually fled their home to come live with me for a period of time, after they realized that that situation was not working out. She did, she did. And yet, what we do in families, if your job, if you show up to work and you ask your job hey, where are those eggs that I was waiting for? Or why are you? Why am I not getting the promotion that Carl is getting or Sarah is getting? And your job sits down and has a frank conversation with you your job is not going to say Cleveland, you can ruin everything.
Speaker 1:They're just going to be like you're fired, you're fired, right. Well, the problem here with him is that he's not open to taking feedback either.
Speaker 2:But a lot of people. Let's not just make it about him. A lot of people are struggling with this in their families.
Speaker 1:A lot of people won't take feedback Absolutely, and we see it firsthand.
Speaker 2:And so Jack Canfield says in the success principles and I quote Jack a lot, you know, lindsay tells me I read books and then I go on an information tear, but I read this one a while ago, so, but I can still go on. It is in our lives. You have the ability to complain or you have the ability to change it, ability to change it Right, absolutely. And if you have a family member in your life Jack Huckleberry, in my case, you know my ex-wife that is ruining the dynamic of the family. Heaven sent, heaven sent. That is ruining the dynamic of the family. You have the choice to disconnect from that person Right. And part of what my family struggles with me on is I love my family very much, but there are people in my life who ruin everything and I have made the choice that Jack Canfield says is either you can complain about it or you can change it.
Speaker 1:I think there's a lack of awareness, do you? Because whenever anyone has a complaint, they fail to look at their side of it, especially in our family, right, right, oh. I don't know why my relationship with you is so strained, dad, and it's like oh well, heaven sent. I could think of a lot of reasons.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could think of a lot.
Speaker 1:Right, and the thing is, is that the other person is so busy being the victim, right, right, which is what happens in a series of questions that that, trust me, I have already pondered.
Speaker 2:Hey, is this kid depressed? Hey, is this kid got things going on? And hey, and I said, hey, you know what, wes? I've asked him all those same questions, right, but at the end of the day, I am not responsible for his heaven, my neighbors down the street, salvation If you believe in the scriptures or whatever scriptures you believe in, or if you're an atheist or don't believe in atheists believe in survival of the fittest. The Bible teaches us that each one of us is responsible for our own salvation. You cannot take away the piece of your home for an adult. Not, we're not talking about minor children, because minor children you're responsible for ethically, morally, legally, until they're 18. Right, but I'm talking about people who have adults in their home who are 21, 22, 23, up to 40 years old.
Speaker 2:I've had colleagues. One of my colleagues back in my former company had a son who's probably now in his forties, who, him and his girlfriend, lived in his basement apartment. Lived in his basement because the guy, the son, was still trying to be a standup comedian at age 32. And I remember this gentleman coming to me and saying you know what? This is the most frustrating experience I've had in my life. I've taken care of this man now for the last 32 years, and I don't feel like it's coming to an end and you know what? Whose fault is that? And that's what I said and I was like you know who can change that? You can't, right, but right. But what these kids do to us and what the jacks of the world do to us, is they prey on this idea that I, you know, that you owe me something.
Speaker 1:Right, well, that's yeah, that's exactly what's happening, and I think a part of it is that, you know, there is this like kind of crisis of not knowing who they are and having all this societal pressure to be something, but not it not really aligning, and it's just that. For me, it's just that like, but okay, like, let's come together, right, because there can be a balance, right you?
Speaker 1:can have this person in the family and still keep your peace Right. You can have this person in the family and still keep your peace Right If there's a little bit of awareness.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's reciprocity. It is reciprocity, you know the Bible says. And if you believe in the Bible, the Bible says that we don't hear and people got a twisted view of God, 100%. You know I may be controversial for saying this, but read my book Waiting for White Jesus. But the Bible says this is the undeserved kindness of God. Yes, jesus in the Bible says hey, are the flowers of the field clove, do the birds of the field fed? So if you serve God, therefore he will take care of you. Yet the same Bible that says that says if they do not work, they do not eat.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right the same Bible that says that says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. So even God demands not asks for demands reciprocity.
Speaker 1:Right, but that's also not so. I guess it begs the question like where did we go wrong as a society that this is something that's coming up more and more and more now? You and I talked about this yesterday. If you look at the mental health crisis in this country and the number of teens that are in inpatient or are in these residential programs for behavior and substance use, where did we go wrong and how do we shift that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, you know, I do know, we know we've gotten the answer down here right, because we've met, we've had these conversations with multiple people here on the beach, both Americans and Caribbean people, and you know what Caribbean people say the problem that you have in America is you lack discipline.
Speaker 1:Right, well, and that's not how they say it.
Speaker 1:I know they basically are like because you're not allowed to beat your kid, yes, right. Well, and that's not how they say it, I know they basically are like because you're not allowed to beat your kid, yes, right. And so there's also this, this discussion that you and I had yesterday of is there such a thing as a healthy fear of your parents, and you know? And what is that? Yes, what is that balance? The thing is is that people lack respect. I think when you come down here and you said to me finally the other day, now I see why you like it so much here. Right, it's, first of all, the cell phone hardly works.
Speaker 2:Fabulous. Yeah, I think my cell phone finally gave up the ghost again. Yeah, every time you go away, you lose a device Second time my, my, my Apple watch stopped working in Barbados and now today, and I can't get in any of my stuff, my cell phones.
Speaker 1:But. But the thing is is that you know we're in this beautiful place and kids are swimming in the ocean, playing, families are out, nobody has a device in their hand, nobody. When you go to dinner, nobody has a device in their hand or on the table and people talk to each other. Right Yesterday we took a walk in the morning and how funny was it, the owner of this place where we stay, elvett, nicest guy.
Speaker 2:The Elm Beach Suites and Hotel.
Speaker 1:And we often walk in the mornings here, which I love to do. We walk on the beach. Yesterday we decided we'll drive to another beach and take a walk and there's Elvett just floating in the ocean and I was like God, elvett, I want to be you when I grow up.
Speaker 2:Here's the crazy thing, right? Yes, there are Caribbean islands where crime is rampant. Yes, jamaica, but Jamaica is very American influenced. Yes, the Dominican Republic, but the Dominican Republic is now very American influenced. Right, haiti has crime running rampant around it, but that is because there is an intentional sabotage by many nations, and we can get into that political discussion. There's an intentional sabotage of those people's culture in order to make it lawless, because they were the first people to liberate themselves. They were the first colony of black people that were like damn it, we do not want to be slaves and we're going to throw ourselves, we're going to throw these masters out. And there has been an intentional. If you look at the history of Haiti, there's been an intent from the, from the nations that thrown out, we're going to ruin that country, right, but these other countries that we visited, where the crime is low the crime, there's no mass shootings here, right, and I know it's controversial to say people don't even lock their doors here.
Speaker 2:People don't, because people know that you will pay the price, a severe, high price, of breaking societal norms here now we're not saying, we're advocate the wholesale beating of kids.
Speaker 1:That is not what we're right or we don't believe in, you know, putting someone out on a raft and pushing them deep out to sea yeah, which is all the things that happen in these places like this.
Speaker 2:But you have to understand that because of the way the people live, because there's no immediacy, we met an officer that said, you know, like, hey, his wife's brakes went out like a couple of weeks ago. And he's like, yeah, you know, she had to wait a couple of weeks to get a car fixed, but because there's no immediacy here of my needs, that will get met immediately. You will find they're very the people here aren't super entitled like the Jacks, the Heavensense, the Huckleberry Tims of America.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I haven't really seen anybody angry the entire time that we've been here Nobody nobody, and you know what.
Speaker 2:Everyone here will tell you everyone that I am not going to allow Jack to ruin everything Right. Absolutely Every person that you meet here that lives in the Island of Tortola, not every cause. I can't, I don't want to generalize, but most people here come from like, are your friend E. You have one of your favorite stories about E as a grown man what did you get? You got sand in his mother's car.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, you got sand. You can't get sand in my mother's Jeep. She's going to kill me. But it's just this level of respect of you listen, you hear what someone has to say and then you act accordingly. And that's the problem that we have, I think, in America is that people are just off doing what they want when they want to do it, and everyone has all of this anger and they want all of this immediate recognition for doing things. And when you come somewhere like this where they don't have that stuff, right, there's nothing that's, there's nothing urgent here. Right, that's what I'd said to you the other day. Right, you know, it's like you go to the grocery store here. If they have what you want, you get it. If they don't, oh well, maybe next week, but you know, that's we've.
Speaker 1:We've lived a very simple life here. We've gone out to eat a lot. Sure, we've had a lot of fun. We go to the beach every day, but it's just we, just we eat very simple meals, we take long walks, we talk to each other. I haven't had any issues sleeping here, you and, and I feel like there's so much going on around us and, yes, there is a way to tune it out when you practice meditation or exercise or do these things, but around here, my nervous system is just at this all time low.
Speaker 2:Is there crime here? Not much, but yes, things happen. We met an officer from the UK that came here retired and then they found out he came here, he wanted to live here.
Speaker 1:So he then applied for a job because in his retirement he wanted to come and live here for a little bit. It's very hard to live here. Another reason that it's so safe is nobody can just come in and take up residence here. There's a lot of paperwork, there's a lot of of documentation. There's nowhere that you can lose somebody here. It's a very small place and everybody knows everybody. But he said that most of the crime here is targeted crime. Right, right, if there's drugs, things like that, the average person like you or I walking around, I can walk down the beach at night. Nobody, nobody cares, they don't. There's nothing scary, there's nobody that's going to approach you because there's reciprocity.
Speaker 2:Everyone here knows, if you do something, that something is going to return is going to happen to you, right, and one of the things that I appreciated about this, this, this gentleman, white guy from england, police officer, right, and this is one of the things that, one of the amazing things that I will have to admit and Lindsay says this about this, this, this lovely island of Tertola all the time, is that everyone here bangs with everybody else. Right, here's a white cop that everybody on the beach knows, knows him and he's cool with everybody on the beach.
Speaker 1:Well, yesterday, after we saw Elvett swimming in the sea at Brewer's Bay, we come back and a little while later we go. You know, we were at the beach all day. We come back from the beach, we need to take a shower and we need new towels after the shower for today. And it's you go outside and what's he doing? He's just he's here now at his business that he owns, playing dominoes. You know, at a picnic table with a bunch of other people who just happened to roll up, and you know, and it's like you ask them for the towels and of course he's going to bring them, but you know, it's. It's just that, like nothing is urgent, it's just like, you know, can I bring it later? And there's a lot of people that would be annoyed by that. Like I just want it right now and I need to have it right now. Get up, I need the towels.
Speaker 1:And I and I think ultimately I said to you that's going to be the downfall of this beautiful little place that we stay is that, as this little apartment because his son put it on Airbnb as this apartment becomes more and more popular and harder to book, they're going to get more negative reviews because you're going to start to attract that demographic of people who want everything there immediately when they go to an Airbnb and it's a super host, they're going to want everything in a specific way. And I just you know, I don't think that. You know, I just don't know, I don't think he wants that. His son wants that because his son is sitting on you know, a huge, you know inheritance here, but I don't think that he wants that. Like, I think this man just wants to swim in the sea, play dominoes and open his restaurant. Twice a week when there's a, the band is in town but to stay, you know, and that stays on our point.
Speaker 2:But staying on our point of what we're talking about is we've met multiple people here. We've met when we were at the Indigo beach bar. We've met the expat who had brought the um the Agape cottages. We met the young lady who used to live down here she's now an attorney and um in florida who said that it's a hard life but it's worth it, it's worth it right?
Speaker 2:yeah, and, and, and, the reason why these people in this place and in these lovely, uninfluenced these places that are not, uh, influenced by american immediacy, by american greed, by american anger, not even by the british right, right and and what you know.
Speaker 1:And britain is just as as developed as america is, and they, they don't. They have that influence here, a little bit, yes, but it's still very much its own place.
Speaker 2:You can't even barely watch tv here, right? No, but you can barely get a cell phone signal here, right. And so what you see in this demand of the Jacks and the Jills and the Heavensense of America is that the kids here know, the generation of people here know, yes, and I'm sure there's generational problems everywhere, but the generation here knows that if I want something, what do they have to do? They go and get it themselves. They got to go get it themselves right, there has to be that motivation.
Speaker 1:You know, you meet so many people here that are very and I think, and and here's another thing too, and not to talk about politics but it's also while. It's harder to live here. Yes, because you don't have access to things right, or they're very expensive. Right, groceries are 80 more expensive than america, but crime is 90 less, 99 less, I think.
Speaker 1:Um, I, mean like I haven't heard a siren in three weeks. I haven't heard anyone beep a horn, unless they're coming around a crazy curve in the road. Right, right, but it's just that it's easy to be here. Yeah, it's easy to be here, it's easy to live here. There's no income tax, so you make all your money. The local people own the land, and the ones who own the most land have a pact with each other to never develop it and never sell it, and and that's what keeps this place the way it is- yeah, the Bible says and it's one of my favorite scriptures in the Bible is I give you the blessing, I give you the curse, I give you life, I give you death.
Speaker 2:You choose Right. And so what one generation. And I don't want to, and I don't want to, I don't want to just be blanket, because there's a lot of kids that work. Right out of the seven kids that we have together, four of them realize, four of them get it Well and three don't. Well, maybe well, maybe like five get it now. No, which three don't? Well, maybe five don't, maybe, maybe two don't, maybe two don't, because even the Republican in Florida now realizes that he has to work really hard.
Speaker 1:Right, well, and you know, and the college drop-in is doing very well in school, so he's got his summer job and the queen mom has her summer job and she's going to get ready to start college in September. So two don't summer job and she's going to get ready to start college in September. So you know they're not and I don't have any doubt. I mean, I think the college drop in without a doubt is probably like never going to come back home after college.
Speaker 1:He's just going to figure out his career and call it a day, and he's you know, he's a very self-motivated and independent kid.
Speaker 2:But I think the lesson is for for, for that we're trying to come across as as as we talk about this is that, and as we wrap up, so I can go to the superstore and get a coffee and we can get a coffee. Maybe I'll get some of that. What?
Speaker 1:was the coffee.
Speaker 2:Oh was the I, the drunken irish, oh dear yeah, with the, with the, with the iced coffee, with the straight up oat, milk and whiskey, a starbucks. You need to do a drunken Irishman of Venti or Gandhi, but I, just as we're doing this freewheeling conversation. I think the moral of the story that we're just trying to to bring across is you can't be afraid to have a person in your life that is ruining your life. Suffer the, suffer the consequences of them ruining your life.
Speaker 1:Well and you can't allow them to impact you in that way. Right, you can set the boundary that says I love you, but you just can't live here, right, right, and it's unfortunate. I heard you mention rock bottom moments before. It's really unfortunate because I do think a lot of people wait until they hit their rock bottom moment to work on things, because there's a part of them that's just doesn't really believe that anyone's going to ever kick them out or that life is ever going to kick them in the butt. And you know we can keep our own peace and set boundaries. And you know I am really ready to let him go and find a place to live and I don't feel badly about it. It doesn't mean I don't like him, it doesn't mean I don't love him, but he's not following the rules here and when you? You know life is full of rules. I hate rules Number one, you know that about me but life is full of rules and there's rules that you have to follow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the many, one of the many wonderful lessons that I learned in my 13 years at NBC universal, um, and it was a great time there, wonderful company, some, some really great people and some really not so great people. But one of the great people that I met there was a young lady by the name of Cindy Neal who was a corporate trainer from Florida that they would bring in from time to time to help us adjust our attitudes Right. And one of the things that Cindy Neal and this is this is for the people who have the jacks in their family who are ruining everything. Right, because the dynamics that go on in families are the same dynamics that go on at work. And one of the things that Cindy Neal said, you have to understand this when you have one employee who is ruining everything, lindsay, what happens to the other employees when you have that one?
Speaker 1:They're not getting any recognition in any way because so much focus is put on this one person. Right, and I was, and I was actually just lost my train of thought, but I was going to say something else along those lines of you know it is. It's about like also, it keeps you out of the moment, right, these people are in this most beautiful place on earth, as one of the daughters said that morning, in the ocean, and the mother is sitting here worried about Jack ruining everything, and it's like you know what? Jack isn't even over here right now. Jack is getting drunk in a bar. Enjoy the ocean, be present, right, we don't have to take the calls. We don't have to eat the, you know, we don't have to bite, we don't have to eat the bait. We can just enjoy our moment and I and that's why I rarely yell anymore I'm not willing to disrupt my peace because someone else can't get their life together.
Speaker 2:And that was the point that Cindy was making. She, she was. That was the point that Cindy was making is that when you have an employee that is ruining everything that that employee or that family member is is Yep, it is raining that employee or that family member is literally ruining the dynamic of everything because you are allowing it. And so the real life lesson that I've learned from Cindy's point because just to reiterate what Cindy said is that you're taking away to what Lindsay just said is when you have Cindy no, what Lindsay, I was talking about, cindy no, if you remember what we were just talking about, as I said, I worked with a trainer named Cindy Neal.
Speaker 1:Oh right.
Speaker 2:I forgot about her. Thank you, who said it was only two seconds ago? My mind is on the beach. I know we're going to get out of here in a second, but what Cindy was saying is that, yes, you do want to work with the bad employee, but the problem with the bad employees, if you have four good employees and you're spending all the time on the one employee who's ruining everything, the three good employees are eventually going to be like well, what am I showing up to work for? Because this person over here gets all the attention Right. And what happens is in offices like that and I've worked in offices like that where the leadership was very poor, was poor and they needed to be disciplined and they were bad employees and they ruined it for everybody else who was working there is.
Speaker 1:Eventually you get a dysfunctional office Right, and when you bring that back to when you worked in corporate right is everybody doesn't, nobody wants to take responsibility, so what they do is they all tiptoe around it and live in this state of constant fear and discomfort.
Speaker 2:And then how does that work when you bring that dynamic back to a family?
Speaker 1:It doesn't work.
Speaker 1:It doesn't work for my nervous system to be activated and have an adult child at home who's not willing to wash a dish and who's going to have a party and leave my nice new cushions in the backyard or who's going to be and who's going to leave the you know food on the counter and the cans on the counter for a week, and who's going to leave the garbage cans in the street all day until the younger and more mature sibling gets home and says hey, eight hours ago you're supposed to bring the cans in. Right, that doesn't work for me because there is zero that I get in return for that investment.
Speaker 2:Right, and that was Cindy's point Right. And so, when you think about even my, my former marriage, my son, uh, uh, said to me the Republican who lives in Florida now said to me is you can't tell her what to do. So therefore and this is when he was 16 years old and he's talking about my ex-wife is therefore, how dare you think you can tell me what to do? Right?
Speaker 1:Right, it impacts everybody. Yep, right, and, and. And it's interesting too, and I can use relate this to a story from our life. But if you look at Huckleberry, tim, right, his is always like oh well, why does everyone like the college drop in more? Why does he get this, why does he get that? And it's like no, that's not true. And yes, he does things. He's secretive about them. He does them well, he also helps out. So guess what? For the few things that he does, that might be frustrating and annoying and not okay, he does 90 other things that are fine, and so that's, that's the missing piece there is. I don't think that he realizes that his life in the house could be more peaceful and no one would bother him if he actually just said oh hey, you know what? Let me go and do these five things for mom and cleave, and then I could just rock out doing whatever I want all day.
Speaker 2:The problem is is because he hasn't suffered the consequences of his actions, right, correct and so and so for those of you who are dealing with the Jacks, it, be they an employee, be they a wife, be they a child, be they a distant cousin or a roommate or whatever people, you cannot shield people from the consequences of their actions, and by letting people get away with ruining your life, you are not teaching them anything.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's just a level of control that nobody should have over you, right?
Speaker 2:You know one of the things and I've tried to share this with Huckleberry Tim I've worked in numerous places in the course of my life and then at one point in my life, for 12 years, I worked for FedEx in Brooklyn Wonderful job until it wasn't but the big, the NAN, was the manager of the Big Apple District, and I've said this, and one of the great lessons that I learned from Nan is, when we are in a meeting that's about you, do me a favor.
Speaker 2:She would say don't tell me, don't talk to me about, well, cindy's getting this or Tom's getting that or Mary's getting this. And this is the truth, because we ain't here about none of those other people, right, we are here about you. And she was like, the minute that you tell me that and you tell me about the treatment of someone else, this meeting is over, right, right. And one of the things that the jacks of the world that ruin everything and this is a conversation that I had to have with Huckleberry Tim Well, why is this person getting this? Why is that person getting this? Why is this person getting this? And it's because they actually are reciprocal.
Speaker 1:Right and reciprocity. We can do a whole episode on that, but reciprocity is hugely important in life and it doesn't have to be of equal.
Speaker 1:It can be that you know I do something for you and you would just appreciate it, and that's the gift back, right? And if I came home from work and the dishes were clean and the laundry machine was empty and somebody had cleaned up a little bit, I would be really happy and I wouldn't be stressed out, right. But when you come home and you've already had a long day and you have all these things going on and then there's no recipro reciprocity, it's just like what, what like how is this relationship beneficial to me, right?
Speaker 2:right on a concluding note. Now we're going to wrap it up because we do have to. The brain has stopped. Uh, I want to go down to soper's hole and go get some coffee from omar, who seems to own everything. By the way, if you're ever down in tortola, go to omar Sandpit on Tuesday nights.
Speaker 1:Oh the steel drums.
Speaker 2:So nice, so nice, so nice. But on this note and I've actually said because, even for the atheists in the universe, right, because there are lessons in the Bible that are practical. Right, we are all made in God's image, right, if you believe in God or don't believe in God, we all made in the image of the universe, and the universe is about reciprocity right, the universe is about laws and rules, and if you do something, for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.
Speaker 1:Right yeah, you get what you give you reap what you sow, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And as a parent, and as if you, if you, if you listen, if you, if you know the story of the flood in the Bible, god tried very hard to work with the humans of planet earth before he destroyed the earth in that original flood. And the Bible says, in fact, that God grew to have great regret that he made men because they were so reckless and lawless. And it was with great regret that he destroyed the world, right, when you read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. And Lot was God, hey, don't kill these people. You know, please, this is, you know, they're humans, they're making mistakes. And God said to Lot he was like dude, he's like here here, here, lot, find me, find me 10 righteous men.
Speaker 2:Lot couldn't find 10 righteous men, find me five, find me five and I won't kill them. Lot couldn't find five, find, find me five, find me five and I won't kill him. Locke couldn't find five, find me one and I won't destroy them. Locke couldn't even find one, right. And so you have to get to a point in your life where, if a situation is not working for you and you've tried very hard to give that person 10 reasons, you've tried very hard to give them five reasons. You've tried very hard to give them one reason, and that person is not being reciprocal for you. If that person is not giving you an equal and opposite reaction, lindsay, what do you need to do with that person? They need to go.
Speaker 2:They need to go, right, right, they need to go. You do not need to. Uh, don't let familial obligations or romantic feelings or fear let someone.
Speaker 1:Fear dictates so much for people, you know, but don't let that ruin your life. Right, absolutely that's. And that's why you know things have to change in our life, because I'm not going to be on another vacation, you know, fielding ridiculous phone calls, yeah, and neither should you, neither should you at home.
Speaker 2:So, as we wrap up, I think the lesson that I want to give here, um, which is the lesson that we talk about every week, is you do not need to accept anything, anyone, any situation in your life that is ruining your life.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think actually next time we'll talk about this a little bit, because you and I had a little bit of a discussion on the beach the other day where you told me I'm rigid, but I said, no, I have boundaries.
Speaker 2:Well, you got to have a little bit of flexibility.
Speaker 1:There's certain things that I am very rigid on, and that's not also. It's not an issue.
Speaker 2:So maybe one week we can do an episode on rigidity versus boundaries.
Speaker 1:But right now let's go get our coffee by the water. Walk along the little boardwalk, look at the fancy boats that we'll never own. And who said that?
Speaker 2:Enjoy. You don't even know how to sail. He said oh yeah, that's true. Shout outs to all the people down here. Vishal at the Indigo Beach Bar. Sasha at Omar's Was that her name? Our server last night? Sasha at Omar's was that her name? Our server last night, I think so. Sasha at Omar's Sandpit. Annie at what? The Spanish Town Cafe? Well, her name wasn't Annie, but okay, what was it? Anne, anne, you know, I give at the Spanish Town Cafe. Eddie at Coco Maya. You know, jeff, I think it was Jeff.
Speaker 1:Why are you naming all these people?
Speaker 2:Because Coco Maya, you know, jeff, I think it was Jeff why are you naming all these people? Because I'm doing because we're almost at the end of our vacation and I'm doing a shout out to all the wonderful places and people that made our vacation great. Jeff, at Sugarcane and with that being said, I don't even remember half the names I was in hospitality and customer service and it's my job to remember people who've done good jobs at good places.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so interesting? Yeah, because you can't remember where your hat or your shirt are.
Speaker 2:Well, that's because I was having a good time in good places, remembering people's names. Remembering people's names, all right, but remembering my drink and Michelle at Guava Berry Suites in Virgin Gorda with the lovely Well, it's Guava Berry Spring Bay Villas, guava Berry Spring Bay Villas, with the lovely commissary in the honor system. But, with that being said, this has been another episode of the Devil. You Don't Know. This has been Cleveland and Lindsay, by my book Waiting for White Jesus. You will love it. And let's go get coffee. And let's go get coffee. Thank you. ©. Transcript Emily Beynon.
