The Devil You Don’t Know
In The Devil You Don’t Know, Lindsay, Cleveland, and their guests discuss personal growth and development by taking chances and getting out of your comfort zone. Topics range from whimsical to serious and everything in between but are always relevant to growth and development.
The Devil You Don’t Know
Embracing Self-Awareness: The Power of Looking Inward for True Fulfillment
Ever wondered why some people seem genuinely content while others constantly chase external approval? We kick off this episode reflecting on a quote from a silent retreat: "Who looks inside awakens, who looks outside dreams." This sets the stage for a profound exploration of the importance of internal validation, especially as social media and election year pressures mount. Cleveland shares a touching story about his child's decision to join a church, sparking discussions on how to support loved ones' beliefs while respecting personal boundaries.
You'll laugh along as we recount a frazzled grocery store trip that ended in both overheating and overspending. Leveraging Carl Jung's insights, we shift to the critical role of introspection in fostering self-awareness and authenticity, as opposed to seeking external validation. This part of our conversation also touches on the influences of organized religion and high-control groups on our personal growth journeys. We share personal anecdotes and offer insights into how these external factors can shape, but shouldn't define, our identities.
Finally, we tackle the societal obsession with labels and the toll of external validation on our well-being. Drawing from the wisdom of experts like James Sexton and John C. Maxwell, we discuss how stepping away from rigid self-identifications and the relentless demands of traditional jobs can lead to more fulfilling lives. From corporate burnout to the liberation of self-employment, our stories illustrate the journey towards true self-identity. We end with a powerful message on the necessity of internal healing and self-awareness, advocating for genuine conversations and personal satisfaction over public affirmation. Join us for this candid and thought-provoking conversation on living authentically and embracing your true self.
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
And this is Cleveland.
Speaker 2:This is Lindsay.
Speaker 1:And this is another episode of the Devil. You Don't Know If you hear all this noise in the background. We are recording in our newly renovated kitchen, in a nice little space. The windows are open. Lindsay is a woman of a certain age, which means she's going through menopause. I need the breeze.
Speaker 2:I need the breeze.
Speaker 1:I actually this whole episode that we're going to talk about today is Lindsay.
Speaker 2:First of all, tell the folks about the episode before I get into my old man rambling so this episode is awake from within, how external forces shape identity, and this is an idea that I came up with after my silent retreat, when you and I were talking, and I said during a dharma talk, one of the retreat leaders said who looks inside awakens, who looks outside dreams. Yeah, I think it might be reversed but that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's good, right, it is really something that we need to talk about, because I do think, especially as we look at this election year, as we look at social media, a lot of. Yeah, just looking at people in general or people in general, a lot of folks look for external validation. Yeah, just looking at people in general or people in general, a lot of folks look for external validation.
Speaker 2:Yes, and they listen to the voices of other people, which we've talked about. Oh, yeah, and instead of looking within and doing what they feel like feeds their soul or what their gut tells them to do, and this was definitely inspired by recent.
Speaker 1:You ever watch a movie guys Inspired by a true story? Today's movie guys inspired by a true story, today's episode was inspired by a true story the the, the names I. One of my children, heaven sent, has recently joined a church we're just gonna say I'm not gonna say the names.
Speaker 2:You said the names and now here you are just blabbing.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm gonna blab, I'm gonna blab. So. So heaven sent has recently joined a church we won't talk about the name of, we won't name the church, but the church is very, very it's interesting.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, I did not go to said church because I do not visit religious establishments, and none of my and all of my friends advised me not to go to church. It was interesting. This is what she believes, and so I wanted to be supportive. I do want to say I want to talk about menopause for one minute let's talk about menopause.
Speaker 2:What would you like to talk about?
Speaker 1:So I ran into my ex-wife today at the church, who is also a woman of a certain age, who was also in menopause, and she was like oh, I thought your wife was still in her thirties. I'm like no.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I thought your wife was still in her 30s. I'm like no, oh my god, I wish I was. I'm like these hot flashes, yeah nothing to joke about right now.
Speaker 2:I was like, I was like oh, my wife is of a certain age also and she's like, oh, she's like, for some reason I thought she was still like 38 or like 39 yeah, I want to just tell you that I was low-key mad at you this morning about because we got in the car to go to the grocery store and you were like I'm just gonna open the window and you got like a little bit of an attitude about the ac, so I didn't want to say anything and I sat there and I sweat the whole way to the market and I was so annoyed but I did put the ac on. No, on the way home you did oh, I'm so sorry on the way there.
Speaker 2:You didn't. I just had to open my window and suck it up. Oh, I forgot I was dying. So you had long sleeves on, yeah, yeah, and lila had her long sleeves on. You were both prepared for the market today and then you just mess me up by making me sweat the whole way. And then the whole time in the market, I was so agitated I couldn't wait to get out of there. Oh, I'm so sorry you guys did that thing. You do again where, when I shop with you, you throw all this extra crap in the cart. Yes, when I go by myself, I spend $150 to $200. When you guys come, I spend $300. So what is the lesson that?
Speaker 1:you've learned today.
Speaker 2:Don't bring you to the grocery store and I can control my own air conditioning.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think that's the point that I was trying to bring out. What was funny is I remember I used to work well as you guys, if you follow in the story so far. I used to work in corporate and it never really, and I and as part of my job in corporate, I worked for facilities and I had women of a certain age as clients and I used to talk about this in last week, yes, but I used to take it for granted. But my ex-wife was like this is some bullshit in this church. There was a lot of crazy stuff going on in the church today and it just made me the only BS was not just the air conditioning situation no no, but, but.
Speaker 1:but it made me think of you. When she was coming, she was like oh my God, I'm so menopausal, it's so hot in here.
Speaker 2:I was like because it's hot everywhere. And now I think the change of the seasons is making it worse, because when I'm in the house it is so hot, but when I'm outside it's breezy, so I'm fine, but then the breeze doesn't come through the house upstairs well, so I haven't been sleeping well.
Speaker 1:Well, we're going to fix it. We're going to fix it, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you are.
Speaker 1:So what inspired this episode is one of my children, heaven Sent, recently found religion which we are not anti-religious.
Speaker 2:I think you do what works for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, if spiritual, I think, if spiritual, I think, if being spiritual works for you in your life, then that's great, right? But when Carl Young made this statement about he who looks outside dreams and he who looks inside awakens, I found that really fascinating, and so Lindsay. I just we just decided to do an episode about this, and so, since Lindsay is the one that brought that to my attention, and sorry for the airplanes in the background we are pretty much almost outside. In fact, where we're sitting at used to be outside Right now, it's our new kitchen. It's our new kitchen. But, lindsay, so hot, it's nice in here, it is wonderful in here. So many windows, it's so breezy, it's so breezy, it's so breezy. But, lindsay, what does that mean to you, like? Why did you feel that this was an important topic to talk about?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, when I heard that, I thought, oh, that's so true, right, because a lot of us go on a journey in life and the answers are within, right. I think we talked about it last week too. It's like you have to listen to your gut and people don't do that, right? So it's like when you look within, it's a way to kind of connect with yourself, and when you connect with yourself, right, then you, you learn to like, love yourself and have compassion for yourself and be empathetic, you know, to yourself.
Speaker 2:In a lot of ways, when you look outside, it's often because you're looking for the approval of other people or you want attention from other people, so like, oh, I'm going to go to this church or I'm going to go and do this thing, and then, oh, my, everyone's going to see what I do, and then that's going to make me feel better about myself, right, right. And so that journey within I mean, both journeys can be uncomfortable, right, but when you do that kind of journey within and you awaken, you become more aware of what you.
Speaker 1:you become more aware of what you know you need to work on and you know what direction your life needs to take. Yeah, one of the things that's interesting about Carl Jung is is he almost he is a psychologist and was, but he was also deeply influenced by facade, by philosophy and spirituality. Carl Jung was very deeply interested in the unconscious minds and dreams, in addition to spirituality. When we think of what Carl Young meant by dreaming, by looking out, I think he meant being distracted by external influence.
Speaker 2:Right, I agree a hundred percent. That's what I'm saying, right, it kind of it takes away from your self-awareness. It's more of like what do other people see? What do I need to do to fit in with them?
Speaker 1:Right, when that journey within is more of a journey toward authenticity to do to fit in with them right, where that journey within is more of a journey toward authenticity, right, right, and in this particular episode I wanted to split this up between the workplace and also like organized religion, right, one of the reasons and we won't really stay on the organized religion piece that long because you know you are entitled to believe what you believe. But I used to be in a religion that was a high control group and I and I have a lot of folks that I see. I have one gentleman who, it's crazy, his mom was a Jehovah's Witness and his dad was a devout Muslim, which are both very high control groups. So now here he is, he's almost, he's approaching 30.
Speaker 1:And because he was in this religion that did not allow him to look outward he does not know, did not allow him to look outward, did not allow him to look inward, that did not allow him to look inward. I take it back he does not know who he is. In fact, one of the things that he said to me in our initial conversation was that, you know, whenever I would talk to my mom or my dad for advice, he was like my mom would never say, hey, well, this was my experience. My mom would say, well, this is what Jehovah says and that my dad would always be because his mom follows that like outward looking path, right, and then his dad would be well, this is what Allah says.
Speaker 1:And he was like I don't want to know what Allah says, I don't want to know what Jehovah says, I want to know what you say.
Speaker 2:But you know, I want to go back on what you said because I think that you know, yes, you know he can blame his parents, but he's an adult now and we've talked about this and as an adult you make your own choices and you can go on your own journey. So if you don't think that that's correct, right. It's not the fault of the religion or fault of a parent, right?
Speaker 1:It's how you decide to take the course of your life into your own hands. So why is it dangerous? I want to, just I want to pick your brain. I'm going to spend this, this, this next hour, 45 minutes, or however long we record, talking about this. I want to pick your brain. Why is it dangerous to look outward for validation?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know if it's dangerous. I think it reminds me. I just thought of that quote from the Bhagavad Gita, right? Which was what was it? Like you know? It's like you know, to live the dharma of another brings great danger, right, so it's better to live your own dharma, your own path, poorly than path of another person, your own path poorly than path of another person. Well, I think the quote exactly is you know, it is better to live the Dharma of another, of a Dharma of yourself, poorly than the Dharma of another. Well, because the Dharma of another invites great danger, right, which is what you're talking about, and that's, that's just this inauthentic life journey. So when you're living a path that someone else tells you to live, it's I mean, no wonder we're living in a world full of really unhappy people, right, right?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that's that's where the danger lies. Because then, what happens when you live in a world full of unhappy people? We see it every day. We live in the Bronx, so driving down the street, right, you see it. People don't practice self-care. They don't. There, everything is about being angry. Angry or emotional towards another person, right?
Speaker 1:right.
Speaker 2:And it's just it's. You know, when you look within, you have that moment of like oh yeah, this is what I want for me, and it's not to say that you don't need other people right, you can't read the label from inside the bottle. You do need people to support you and to help you along the way, but not to tell you how to live your life and tell you what principles to live by. Yeah, but not to tell you how to live your life and tell you what principles to live by.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things that I want you to speak on this is when you and it goes outside of religion, it goes to politics, it goes to a job, when you identify yourself as I am Christian, I am Muslim, I am Democrat, I am Republican.
Speaker 2:But nobody follows those things 100 percent, right. Right, I am Republican, but nobody follows those things 100 percent, right. Right, there's nobody that believes every single. You know part of every one of those. You know kind of categories. So, if you identify as conservative, do you really believe 100 percent of the conservative policies? If you're a liberal, do you believe 100 percent of the liberal policies? Right, I mean, I said it to you. Right. When you think about like Christianity or Catholicism. Right, I mean, I said it to you. Right, when you think about like Christianity or Catholicism. Right, and conservatives, conservatism and what's going on in the world now. In, right, in regards to like women's rights, most of those people would be the first people to like run their kid off to a secret destination to have an abortion should they get pregnant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right, right and so it's like it's OK to you know, decide, you know, be more on one side than the other, but nobody believes 100% of one side.
Speaker 1:So nobody. So when you look outward, it seems like almost like you have this rigid sense of self, Like if you define yourself I'm only Republican, I'm only Democrat, I'm only Christian, I'm only Catholic, I'm only Muslim.
Speaker 2:You know what the only identifier should be. I am me, I'm Lindsay, your cleave right, and everyone should just be themselves.
Speaker 2:So how does having a rigid sense of self, how is that damaging to yourself, like if you had a client and I think you have a client who has a very rigid, like rigid behaviors, but that's you know, due to an autism diagnosis, so I can't really say that that's you know, because of like a religion or anything like that, but it's you know. I mean, for in that kind of circumstance it's so evident, right? Well, because it makes you, when you, when you sit there and you insist that you believe in one specific doctrine or whatever it is, you're not flexible, Right, you are not flexible. And then also, what you do is you isolate yourself, Right, and you exclude a whole bunch of people.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right. So having a rigid sense of self or defining yourself that I'm both isolating and it's excluding. Okay. So how does awakening or how does looking externally help combat rigidity in a personality? Looking internally yeah, I keep on saying it backwards, it's this fine, yeah. It's this fine line. So how does, looking internally, combat combat that?
Speaker 2:Well, I think when you look at yourself internally, when you sit with yourself, when you see what comes up, it gives you a kind of a better picture of who you are and what you need to work on. Right, nobody in either situation is perfect, nobody has all of themselves figured out, but it allows you when you look within, right. I mean there's multiple parts to this, because people don't just start on this journey and think like, oh, everything's perfect, I'm like myself, ok, I'm good, right, it tells you what to work on. Right, but what it does is it doesn't take account the opinions and the voices of other people telling you what to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to pivot this a little bit to the workplace in addition to religion and politics. I want to pivot this a little bit to the workplace in addition to religion and politics, and I'll use my own example Right. For many years I worked for a media company. For many years before that, I worked for a retailer that sold video games and then, before that, I worked a long time for a delivery company. In each of those jobs, my family will tell you that I let those jobs and you would definitely tell me that about the last job that I just left but in each of those jobs, I let those places define me. I let, I use them as validation. I would think, especially in the last place, which I won't talk about, I think for a long time and you were married to me, so you can definitely tell our audience that I let my job at that place define who I was.
Speaker 2:You just lied to yourself. You lied to yourself for a long time and you let that job define who you were. You let that job impact your relationships with other people myself included, Right and you basically told yourself a lie that you just had to be there all the time and you couldn't be present for other things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so. So when you define yourself by a job, yeah, by a church, by You're living.
Speaker 2:You're living a life that other people want you to live.
Speaker 1:Right, and so how does that lead to dissatisfaction? You think?
Speaker 2:Well, you tell me, because you eventually left Well, lead to dissatisfaction. Because I? Well, you tell me, because you eventually left, well, lead to dissatisfaction.
Speaker 1:I'm very satisfied with my life. Well, it led to dissatisfaction for me, in my case, with that particular and every job I've ever left. Was it the delivery place? Was it the video game retailer? Was it the media company? Is I could not be myself right? I visited my daughter's church today, which was a very interesting experience, and maybe, you know, we'll have heaven sent on the show one day, maybe. But one of the things that I felt about that experience- she catches wind of you calling her that.
Speaker 1:One of the things that was troubling to me about that experience is that I did not feel like I could be myself. I felt there was like a rigid. I felt like there was.
Speaker 2:They tell you what to do, and they literally did when you tried to leave, right. So you know, people tell you and we all fall prey to this, right, I did. I fell prey to this in my younger life, you fell prey to this in your younger life, you know. The only ones, interestingly, who are not are the kids now, because you and I have both created lives for ourselves where we create our own path. And so I tell my kids all and I mean all you know collective, all seven of them create a life where you work for yourself. Right, I would never go back to another like a workplace, a corporate workplace or even a school.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question why do you think it is that people purposely because I think sometimes people purposely choose to be asleep in their life there's? I think it's a more Because it's fear.
Speaker 2:It is fear. Fear is the number one factor in that, right, because, well, what if I do this and it doesn't work out? Oh, if I do this, this person might not like me, I might not be accepted here, right. And so what they do is they choose authenticity. I mean, they choose attachment over authenticity. They choose the job, the money, the partner, instead of saying, hey, none of that aligns with me, I'm going to go do something else.
Speaker 1:There's a Morrissey song I think it's Morrissey or the Smiths and I think it starts off like you are dreaming, you don't want to believe. So what does that mean? Like you are dreaming, you don't want to believe, so what does that mean? Like you are dreaming, you don't want to believe, so when you, when you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's what I was just saying. Right, You're dreaming. It's like you create this whole thing and then you don't want to believe that it can actually come true, Right? So it's like a lot of people think that that, you know, choosing what's authentic to them is is not actually possible.
Speaker 1:Why do you think people are scared to look within, though, for fulfillment?
Speaker 2:Well, it's probably because of negative core beliefs. We talk about that all the time too. I talked about that with you, you know. We talked about that off the show too. People are told things about themselves and they believe it, so they don't believe that they can actually do anything different. And I tell a lot of my clients this that the more you're told things about yourself, the more you start to believe them. And if you don't believe them, then stop crying about them and do something else.
Speaker 1:One of the reasons I left corporate America was the same reason why I left the Jehovah's witnesses organized religion, because it got to a point in both of those things where they will like look to us for the truth.
Speaker 2:Right, and the only person who knows the truth is you. Right, because everybody's truth is different, right, and so people go to those places. I said it to you today, right? There's a lot of desperate people in the world. They're desperate to feel better, they're desperate to feel satisfied with their life, they're desperate for better opportunities and they think they're going to get them from going to these places. Right.
Speaker 1:Right Right, right, right. You know, um, like I'm not going to say that, right and the Jehovah's witnesses.
Speaker 2:Right? This is a perfect example. Right, Because they will keep you down. Don't go to college, Right. Don't further your education Right. Don't go to come and work for us and preach for us and work for us on our property for free, and, you know, go door to door and peddle our religion so we can make more money but you don't make any because of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and one of the things that yeah, like and and and our friend that when we were talking about like organized organized religion and and and corporate culture I think our friend, um Dave, had mentioned, and you had talked to him about this church that my daughter's involved in was like Jesus is. Like Jesus actually said avoid religions and people who command what you need to do to find salvation right, because salvation should be found, according to Carl Jung, by looking internally.
Speaker 2:Right and a perfect example of it. Right is with heaven sent saying oh God told me this and God told me that. Great, but you've got no money and no job and no driver's license and no car and no way to pay your bills next month. So like are you listening to God? Because, like I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, like my gut would be like go get a job go get a job.
Speaker 1:Go get a job. I just saw the cat go across the backyard from the dog and jump over the fence.
Speaker 2:Oh, I guess I saw you looking out the window. I didn't do any um gummies, so I know it was actually. It was actually the cat. Go ahead. So sorry, I was distracted.
Speaker 1:I could see the whole backyard yeah, I was wondering like hey, I see my vegetable garden. I see the dogs running around now I don't saw the cat go over the fence. No, I don't think we can record back here now, because I think he's too distracted.
Speaker 2:I'm distracted all the time. Yeah, but that's who I am.
Speaker 1:But you were making a good. You were making a good point, so continue.
Speaker 2:What was I saying?
Speaker 1:You were talking about the cat. Here's another cat. No, no, you were talking about like seeking external validation through jobs, through religion, through the right At the end of the day, you do all these things and are you happy.
Speaker 2:Does it feed your soul? Probably not, because if God told me to go work in a school and I've already tried it three times I know I hate it it's not for me. You've tried it, yeah, you, since I met you. Oh, it'd be great if you had a steady paycheck over the same month, every month. Let them take your taxes out. I'd like you to have a w-2. I don't like the 1099. The taxes are very high. Oh, you gotta go do this. And then you know what? I don't do it because I don't want to do it. And now you don't work and look how happy you are because you see how I've been living all these years. It's like I don't ever and you should know this about me I don't ever do what people tell me that I should do, because I listened to my own voice.
Speaker 1:So we started off talking about religion, we started off talking about work, but let's talk about relationships, right, and I think that's what kills most people. What is wrong with looking for external validation in a relationship? Why is it wrong to look for love externally?
Speaker 2:Well, because that person you know external, that external, that material stuff goes away, right. Looks change, financial situations, work situations change. At the end of the day, if you're happy, you're happy, right. If you are happy with who you are, then you are OK and you can make things work with your partner. We talk about that all the time. You left your job and left, you know you. You left a job, or it was a very lucrative job and we were able to cut our income in half. And neither of us are stressed right now. Right, why is that? Because we're happy. We're on a path, we communicate with each other. I'm happy with what I'm doing, you're happy with the next steps in your life, and that's and that's where, how we got to where we are today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you were to have a client that would come sit down and talk to you and say, hey, I need this job to be happy, I need this man to be happy, I need this woman to be happy, I need this child to be happy, what would you say to them? Where does happiness start first?
Speaker 2:well, the first thing I say to my clients is who's telling you that? Is that yourself or somebody else? That's the first question I always ask people yeah, yeah, that's number one, right, and like well, do you believe that? And you know, and why do you believe that? Who told you that? Right, right. And then, what do you want? What would happen if you actually did what you want?
Speaker 1:yeah, a couple of weeks ago we listened to james sexton talk and I think one of the things that he talked about in there I had all my couples listen to that.
Speaker 2:Oh, that podcast, the episodes? Yeah, because I have a lot of like couples and really tumultuous relationships and just to go back on it, so James Sexton is like very famous divorce lawyer and he was on the Jordan Harbinger show and they did two episodes and he talked about these causes of divorce and why do relationships not work? And you know all my clients that are in turmoil. I send it to them and I said this is why relationships don't work. Like he is spelling it out for you. Oh, it's really already bad. So you know what? Let's have a baby.
Speaker 2:That'll make it better what or right? I had a client last week that came to the session and the husband didn't show up on time because they were in two different places and it took him like a half an hour to get in because I don't think he really wanted to come because she had told me. I told him I wanted to talk about this tonight. I don't think I want this marriage to work. I don't want to grow old in this situation. I don't trust that he's going to change. And two, and then she says they've been married 17 years. Two weeks before our wedding, he told us he didn't. He told me he didn't want to get married and I looked at her and I said, well, that's your fault then. Yeah, that is your fault then, because he told you so. Then you went ahead and you tried to convince him otherwise.
Speaker 1:So that's your fault okay and so and so to your point. So to go into and I'm so your point, I'm gonna kind of co-sign on it is what one of the things and I liked that you said that one of the things that James Sexton said is that one of the things that ruins marriages is the fact that people are looking through the other person oh, this marriage is not working, let's have a baby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or I don't want to get married. Oh, no, no, the wedding is planned. No, no, no. Oh, come on, come on, come on. And then she even went as far as saying he had another woman pregnant when they met.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is a pattern right. This is called a pattern. And I finally said to him if you don't want to be married, it is your job to tell us here. So I said go back, think about it and I'll see you next week and you can let me know.
Speaker 1:So, when you think about the danger of looking externally for validation and not inwardly, what is it that people do when they're looking externally in that relationship instance?
Speaker 2:Well, they're looking to satisfy other people, but not necessarily to satisfy themselves. A hundred percent, a hundred percent, and if you ask me they're really want to be, you know, discontented with their life. Yeah, I'm super content with my life, because I don't you know me I don't follow rules.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things I like about many of the spiritual texts that you know, and I believe that all scriptures and the Bible says this and you can be mad at me if you're a Christian or Muslim or Buddhist or Hinduist the Bible says that all scriptures are inspired of God. Right, and so I am now of the belief that if you believe in the Bible, you believe in the Talmud, you believe in the Quran, you believe in the Bhagavad Gita that all of these books are inspired by God.
Speaker 2:But don't you think that? But every, every religion, right. They believe in different gods. There's different gods. There's different forms of God. So you can say that it's not like God is as Jesus Christ right that you're talking about. There's different forms of God. There's different deities.
Speaker 1:But what does every religion teach? Does every religion teach you to look to God for salvation or for you to look to yourself for salvation?
Speaker 2:Well, buddhism doesn't tell you to look to God, but Christianity and where heaven sent goes are like come here, we're going to tell you the path to take but that is not what the rival really says.
Speaker 1:And Philippians right. But that's what religions tell you. But that's what meant what? That's what Westwood the people who run religion, philippians says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Speaker 2:Right, so the spiritual texts tell you go within. Yeah, to look within, right, but the actual organized religion, except for something like Buddhism.
Speaker 1:Tells you to look toward us.
Speaker 2:We're going to tell you what to do. I mean, for the love of God. The pastor named himself what Gots. Godsent, gods Godsent.
Speaker 1:I love of god, the pastor named himself what gods, gods sent.
Speaker 2:Gods, gods sent, I mean, who names himself that, yeah, god sent. Like that would be like me being like hello, I'm god sent. I know everything that you should do in your life. Come here, let me tell you, I mean my god, and this man is like prophetizing off of this so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's wealthy yeah, he's wealthy oh, it's gross yeah I'm not gonna really all right. Let's carry them in the head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so let's talk because you know what, if I had a net worth of 10 million, I'd probably be really happy.
Speaker 1:Listen, I'd be happy, too, I'd be in my church on Sundays telling the children what to do. Also I want to talk about, as we move on to the next segment, I want to talk about the power of looking inward. How is the process of introspection? As a therapist, how would you tell your clients to harness that power of looking inward? What are some of the techniques, or what are the some of the things that they can do to be successful by looking inward?
Speaker 2:The biggest thing I tell clients to do is, when they feel an emotion whether they're upset, they're angry, they're sad at the hands of what someone else does or says to them not to react. Yeah, stop, bite your tongue, I don't care if you have to go and sit in a car. Go lock yourself in the bathroom, go and be by yourself. Right, what wound did that open? Right, because that's really what it is. You're not mad at the other person, you're not upset with them. It triggered something in you that's not healed, and so it is like stop and identify what that is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, john C Maxwell, in his book Success 101, and also how to Think Like Successful People, talks about taking time to be introspective. Right, because introspection lets you take time to separate the external from the internal. One of the reasons why we don't watch TV anymore is we don't have time. We don't. Well, we're busy when you're entrepreneurial. I just don't like TV. I don't like it. Well, yeah, we're busy when you're entrepreneurial.
Speaker 2:I also just don't like TV.
Speaker 1:I don't like it, but one of the main reasons why I can at least say I don't watch TV and I don't watch Morning Joe and I don't watch CNN and I don't watch 60 Minutes.
Speaker 2:Well, it's all programming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's say it again.
Speaker 2:It's all programming, right? My meditation teacher says that we are like programmed robots is what we are. We are programmed from all of these powers that be in these. You know people up above and it trickles down, and a perfect example is you in corporate America. Right, I have to do this, I have to do that, I have to do this. I have to do that to the expense of your own relationships and, honestly, like a lot of conflict with our relationship too.
Speaker 2:Of like, when I needed you, you most, you couldn't be here because you had to be there right, that was something I because I was looking to those folks, yeah, and I will admit that my paycheck and I have to do this and I have to do that, and I can't call in sick and I can't do this, and it's like because then tomorrow I'm going to be in trouble because I didn't finish this project, yeah, and at the end of the day, like you're not there anymore and you left without finishing any projects which was great which was great.
Speaker 2:Right, but also right like you don't get that time back and you know what there's. No, they didn't say hey, so sorry we made you work so hard and neglect things in your personal life.
Speaker 1:No, on my way out the door they were like hey, we need you to spend time to, we're not going to pay you for to tell us everything that you're working on.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, Because you know what A good manager would have known, would have known Absolutely Right. And this is where this is where these things come in, right and it really does impact relationships. I mean, you're a better version of yourself. I always said, when you go on vacation and we're away together and you would leave the work computer and the work phone in New York and go to the Caribbean, you were the best version of yourself and it was a big adjustment to when you were home.
Speaker 2:I think you've settled in now you're under new management and things are going well, um. But I do have to say, like I tell you every day, right, empty that garbage every day, um, but also like the sink is empty, the dishwasher is empty, the laundry is done. I come home from work and there's like no stress and you have time to do things. Because you're doing things that you want to do, yeah, right, and I mean, how good does it you could speak to this, right? How good does it feel to like, get up in the morning and go to the gym and ride a bike, and sit in nature and walk the dogs and do what you want to do when you want to do?
Speaker 1:it. We are fortunate that we are in a position that I can do that right when we can, where we can do that, where we can work for ourselves. One of the reasons why I think people are like. One of my friends, michael McConnell, who runs the mastermind group, actually put a LinkedIn post the other day that 10 years ago, when he decided to quit corporate America and look and look inward for his success, people thought he was crazy.
Speaker 2:Well, when you expressed your discontent with your job, when we were on vacation with my parents, my father suggested that I was forcing you to leave your job. Right, and it's like because people don't look internally, they don't listen to themselves, they don't listen to their gut, they don't sit and feel and think about like wow, like look at all the signs that were like pointing toward this, and then you left.
Speaker 1:And now, like I mean you can tell us right here, right now, right, describe the difference from you, of you six months ago, but and now, I'm, I'm clearly myself, Whereas as as many years ago and I won't say the name of who I used to work for, but many years ago I will say my previous employers. Many years ago I was Mr GameStop. Many years ago I was Mr FedEx. You know, recently I was Mr Ba Ba Ba.
Speaker 1:You put the three letters to the network that you want to work for. That you can imagine. You can imagine whatever it is you know, like HBO, abc, cbs, nbc I work for one of those. If you find, if, if you, if it listen, I'm easy to you you can look me up and you can see who I used to work for. But my identity and I will say, and I'm and I'm fine to admit this now my identity was clearly tied to my job, right, but, as I put in a LinkedIn post the other day, once you leave that behind and once you, you look inward for satisfaction and I no longer look outward for satisfaction, but I look inward for satisfaction. I no longer have a job. I have what is now purpose.
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely Right. And do you feel better now?
Speaker 1:I feel much better now.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, you were, you know like, living in a miserable situation every single day. So I want to ask you a question.
Speaker 1:This is your show. I've been working for myself for a long time. You've been working for yourself for a long time, so I want you to talk to us as an audience. Why is it important to develop an identity that's not tied to a specific thing? Why is it important to develop an identity that says that is more than I am Democrat, I am Republican, I am Catholic, I am Muslim. How am Republican? I am Catholic, I am Muslim.
Speaker 2:How about? You're just you. What's wrong with that? Right, I said that to you the other day. You know, you and I. So here's the thing with us and this is for every couple, you know, we listen to each other. Because one of the things that you do I told you that really irks me is I'm a super introverted person.
Speaker 2:Right, you might not know it from here, but I'm not in a room full of people here. I'm a very introverted person and you command a room and you're really good at commanding a room and you have a big, big personality and that's fine. I love that about you, because when I'm uncomfortable, you could take the spotlight and then it's not on me. And I said to you we were away in the Finger Lakes and one of the things that you do that annoys me so much, knowing me for eight years and knowing I'm not a big personality and I'm very introverted and I don't like a lot of like socializing. You always do this thing to me when we're out, if I'm not talking enough, you're like you don't like it here. You're not like you don't like it here, you don't want to come back here. No-transcript. Yeah, I'm a reader of people. I like to see what's going on around me and you have that personality and that's the difference. Where I look and I read the room, you command the room.
Speaker 1:So this I'm going to, I want to. You're absolutely right and I want to talk about that for one instance.
Speaker 1:For one second, in the instance of family Right, one of the weird things and I have a client that is very he's like you. He's very introverted, he's fine being by himself, he's fine. He's fine he doesn't need to be around a hundred people and a hundred thousand people, but his family judges him for that Right and it seems like a person that I listened to many years ago said he called it a values gap, that your family or your job or your church would rather you make them happy than make yourself happy.
Speaker 2:I say this all the time. My meditation teacher used to say this is that you know, when you become the scapegoat and you step out of your family's comfort zone, you become the person that they project all of their fear and shame and guilt on, because they are not comfortable, for whatever reason. They're not comfortable with your decisions, but it doesn't really matter. All you have to do is keep your side of the street clean. It's like you know, and I say to my clients, like, do you ask for money? No, okay, so why does it matter? Right, if they're not funding this lifestyle choice that you made, why does it matter if they like it and agree with it or not?
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things that drives me insane about this modern era that we live in is this idea that people have to label themselves, like when I first started studying um psychotherapy well, a lot of people self-diagnose now, yeah, but it was like this whole thing, this gender galaxy, where it's like, well, there are multiple genders, you're asexual, you're bisexual, you're this but who cares cares.
Speaker 2:I don't care what you are, yes.
Speaker 2:Because, if you are that and here's the thing right if you are that and you own that and you're comfortable with that, you don't need to tell everybody, right? I mean, because here a perfect example is my financial advisor is a gay man and you know, does he look like the typical portrayal of what you would imagine a gay man to look like? No, not at all, right. And and when I met him, I, as a matter of fact, I didn't know he was gay. And you know, the thing is is like we don't have to outwardly project everything about ourselves to other people. We can just know who we are without having to. You know, it's like when we start to go for that external validation, it's because we're lacking something and we need that to feel better about ourselves.
Speaker 1:What do you think Carl Young would say about this need that everyone has in these days to label themselves?
Speaker 2:where I need to, I need to state my him, hers, theirs, what he would probably say is shut up and sit quietly and look within and what comes up for you, right? Nobody needs to know anything else, right? It doesn't matter. Like it doesn't matter why you do something, it doesn't matter what you do.
Speaker 2:All we really need is for people to respect our choices. They don't need to understand them, and that's a huge theme in people's lives, right? I don't need you to understand why I believe in this or don't believe in that. All I need is for you to say, hey, okay, that's cool, you are who you are and that's what's driving me nuts right now, at this time of year. I think I told you it's like snoozing season for me on Facebook, because I don't care about all of your political opinions and, as a matter of fact, like, why do you need to come on here and spout them out at everyone and then criticize the people who aren't on your belief side? Like, I don't care which side you're on, so I don't care, we don't need to talk about it and I don't ever need to know.
Speaker 1:Because, at the end of the day, like you don't need to know my pronouns that's what drives me crazy. You, I know who I am. I am Cleveland. You are Lindsay, one of the things that I appreciate about my old boss, and if I shook his, if I saw him in the street tomorrow, I hold them no ill will or no animosity. He used to say you have cleavisms and I was very much my cleavisms, but that's who you are.
Speaker 1:I was very much myself. I did not need to label myself. I did not need to say these are my pronouns. I did not need to say this is who I am and this is who, because I knew who I was. I did not need I'm sorry to be passionate about it, but this is makes me. This makes me crazy. I did not need external validation. You know who else does not need external validation. You don't right. You in the audience who are listening to us talk right now. You don't need anybody to validate who you are.
Speaker 2:It's like be who you are and if you don't, if other people around you don't accept that, then it tells you a lot about your relationship with those people, right, right, I have a couple right now that I'm working with and it's like you know you, when you're in a partnership, especially right, and you, you love someone and their beliefs are different than yours and you're okay with it. But it's not okay, maybe, with your family. Like I would say to I mean, I've said it to your kids before right, like, when your dad hurts, it hurts me. Right, when your dad is upset, I'm upset, like you. You know what. You don't need to say everything that comes in your mind and you don't need to sit there and try to force your belief system on someone else.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like I do not need you to validate me.
Speaker 2:No, because I don't. Well, first of all, I don't need validation Right, because you know what, what I'm doing works for me.
Speaker 1:Right. I told a client the other day you start alone and you end alone, and the only person that you need to offer an explanation to at the end of your life Lindsay who is that?
Speaker 2:Yourself and if you are and I always say this to you too right, this is something that, if you are okay with the choices that you have made in your life, it does not matter what any other person thinks Right.
Speaker 2:And this has been been a big struggle. Right During COVID, I had a lot of opinions about programming from the media and vaccines, and I had to get a vaccine because of work, right. But now, at the end of this, they're like oh, a vaccine is no longer mandatory, ok, so like I sat at home and worked for a couple of years and now you realize that, oh, you know what, it didn't really matter anyway, so you didn't need one and now you could come back without it. But it was like for a while, if you went out to work, you had to have it, but then all of a sudden the next day it went away and that was okay, right, right. So from one day you needed it and the very next you didn't. And it's like I am so tired of people telling us how to live our lives and what to do in our lives. And you know, I mean the COVID thing is just one example, but you get to do what you want to do in this lifetime and you don't have to answer to anybody but yourself.
Speaker 1:And the amazing thing is I was just thinking about it as you were talking what is the first thing that people ask another person when they meet him? Do they ask them who they are?
Speaker 2:No, I'm like, oh, what do you do? What do you do? And you know me, what do I tell you every single time we go anywhere? I hate, I don't know. I hate small talk. I hate small talk. And that is where you and I differ, because you carry a room and you will small talk the fuck out of people and I'm just like sitting there.
Speaker 1:This is a family podcast. We said we weren't garrisoning anymore.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna delete that and then you'll say to me oh, you don't like it here. No, it's not that, but I don't need to small talk everyone, because you can small talk and I can listen to what they're saying and then I can tell you in 10 minutes if they're fake or not.
Speaker 1:So I want to challenge you, not you, not you. Lindsay, the collective. I never challenge Lindsay. Well, I don't follow rules. I will always lose. I'm talking about the royal you, but I want to challenge you to ask a person, the next time you meet them, not what they do for a living, but who are you? Right, right, right. Because we are not who, we are not our jobs, yeah, tell me about yourself, you know.
Speaker 2:But the the first question or if it's what you do, do you like it?
Speaker 1:Do you like it? Right, because what do you get out of it?
Speaker 2:Does it feed your soul? I say that to clients all the time. Yeah, like, if you don't like this, then what is the step towards getting to what you do like?
Speaker 1:And a lot of people are in situations and they're in families, they're in relationships, they're in jobs, they're in marriages, they're in situations that define them externally but not internally. But that's most people, don't you think? I think that's true, Most of the world. Yeah, I think it's most of the world.
Speaker 2:I think it's most of the world Because it's a perfect example of this and it's actually something I want to talk about in another episode. Right, it's breaking the cycle, mm-hmm. Right, and we talked about this yesterday with our friends when we were upstate for the day, but you know, we listen so much to what other people say and do and we let other people hold us back. Yeah, right, and when you think about breaking the cycle, especially with people that I work with, it's like I'll say to you, sometimes I don't understand why these people that grew up in, like the low income housing in the Bronx, right in these horrible neighborhoods, they have these professional jobs and they're still living there. Yeah, and I'm like what is it that they feel like?
Speaker 1:they have to stay here and I'm like what is it that they feel like they have to stay here. So I want to ask you a question. So, to be awake, because we're getting ready to wrap up in a second, to be awake, what is your definition of being awake Like? How would you define awakeness for a client who says and I have a lot of clients who come to me who are emerging adults, I have a lot of clients who come to me who are emerging adults. Um, everyone in that church I went to today, except for God's gift, who is probably like a uh, what was the Oliver twist? Remember Oliver twist? That's what that church was. Oh my God, it was Oliver twist. So he's got all these orphans.
Speaker 2:He's got all these table eating.
Speaker 1:Yes, he's got all these orphans. So, yeah, so, so, so you know. So, so you got this guy. He's all of a twist. He's manipulating all these young people. He's manipulating all these young people into what his idea is, molding them, probably, getting money from them, but how would you tell a client to be awake and to make sure that they're making a decision that is not external but internal?
Speaker 2:The biggest thing I tell my clients is to just sit and be quiet. I'm like what comes up?
Speaker 2:Cause a lot of people say, oh, I can't meditate, I can't meditate and I'm like, no, because what comes up for you is what you actually need to work on, right, and it's like what do you want, is it? And then, when you think about it, is it your voice, or is it someone else's voice, telling you that, like, what do you want to do too? So, and yeah, and that's a big piece of it, right. It's just like what is it that you actually want, right? Do you like this person? Do you not like this person? Do you want to be married? Do you not want to be married? Do you like this job? Do you not like this job? If you lived in an ideal world where, like, the money was not a factor, what would you be doing? Right?
Speaker 1:now. Yeah, like would you be here, right?
Speaker 2:It's like that miracle question, right and in a perfect situation what would you be doing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like would you be here. So I want to ask you for actionable advice. I'm your client. I know, as a psychotherapist we're not supposed to give advice, but what would be? Sometimes I tell people, though Sometimes you have to tell people, yeah. So what would be some actionable tips if I was your client and I was like, hey, I'm lost, I don't know who I am.
Speaker 2:I'm looking externally and I need to look inwardly well, nobody comes to therapy and says that, or they probably wouldn't be in therapy, but okay, but my clients do. And but my clients say to you, I'm looking externally and I need to go well.
Speaker 1:But my clients who have gotten to that point are also to the point where they're getting ready to terminate. I have a young man that we've been together now for about almost three months and he does the work between sessions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when people do the work, they get through therapy quickly. I have a client like that right now too. I've been meeting with her for like two months and now I'm just kind of like, oh, where are we going next? Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I think the thing is is like you know, it's just sitting there and really thinking like, what is it that I want for myself?
Speaker 1:What are my goals and how do I get there? Yeah, yeah, like, what does it mean?
Speaker 2:So I think you would number one say meditation meditation sit, think, feel right and then and then also, like in conflict, when an emotion arises, try to figure out where it comes from, right, right, cause I had a perfect example is last week I had a client, um, a couple, a had their first session and there's a lot of conflict. But one of the things that she said during the session and she was raised by two alcoholic parents One was an alcoholic and a drug addict who's still very actively an addict, and the other one is in recovery and they're divorced now. And she said that when her husband drinks and it was a couple's session, but she said when he drinks, and you know he said, oh well, she acts like this when I drink and you know she doesn't want me to go out and have fun. And then I looked at her and I said, oh, what does it remind you of, right? And immediately she didn't even have to think about it, she said my parents, my parents, my family, right. And so it's like I said to her OK, is an a life right Of being raised by addict parents? And she's probably thinking now about having children with you and she's thinking about you know what is it like? Is he going to go down this path of addiction, is he able to just have a few drinks and have fun? And so it brings up this whole host of emotions for her.
Speaker 2:And the minute I asked her, she knew immediately. And so I always ask clients when something happens, what does it remind you of? Right, she knew immediately what it reminded her of, and that gave him a different perspective. Oh, it's not me, ah, I get it. It brings up hurt for you. And then and then that changed the whole dynamic of the session and she was able to say, ah, yeah, you know what You're right. And so in those moments I said, before you react, yeah, you know what You're right. And so in those moments I said, before you react, because they react with sharp tongues, it was like you know, I said, before you react, sit and sit there and say what does it remind me of? What am I thinking of right now? Because then that helps you to do your own internal healing.
Speaker 1:Right, and one of the amazing things and one of the things I often think about is listen. I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness and I've said that multiple times. It's a very high control group. Oh, it sure is. And if that is for you, then that's fine. It's for you, right? But one of the things that the Bible says over and over again, and one of the things that Carl Young says. So, carl, here's the exact quote from Carl Young.
Speaker 1:Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart. Who looks outside dreams? Who looks insides awakens when Jesus. If you believe in Jesus, you don't believe in Jesus. If you believe in Muhammad, you don't believe in Muhammad. If you believe in Buddha, don't believe in Buddha. Each one of those philosophers told people to look inward. They didn't say follow this prayer. They did not say speak in tongues. They did not say follow this ceremony, they will like. Look inward. Every holy book that you will encounter will tell you that salvation of yourself starts with a journey within yourself. In fact, jesus in the Bible said that a person that is foolish is like a man who looks at his reflection in the mirror and immediately forgets what he looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. Do you hear the fire engines? No, I do not. I hear them. Now they're going down the street from us, 300 feet away. Why? And it said that there was smoke in a dwelling and I thought immediately it was that sage that I tried to burn on you after you came back from Heaven Sent Church this morning. Yeah, somebody is like and I went out in the yard and I saged you and saged your car and you, but it's not, it's not, it's just down the block.
Speaker 1:And you burn, so burn a patio table.
Speaker 2:I did burn the patio table because that's all the energy that you brought back. When the sage smokes more, the energy is really bad. Oh, I do hear the sirens. Someone's house is on fire on our street, like just 10 numbers away from us, so we got to get off of here and go and see what's happening.
Speaker 1:We're going to go see what happened, but before you got distracted, it's good that we have a second about looking like that.
Speaker 1:That is, that is, that is the message of because here's the thing about the Bible, the Quran, the Talmud, all these books, is like people put their extra rules on it. All of these books are in agreement that do not talk to your Iman. Do not talk to your iman, do not talk to your rabbi, do not talk. You know we as counselors are never supposed to tell you what to do religion or a job, or anything.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we want to, sometimes we can see what's coming right, like especially with a couple where, or if you have a like a, even a client who's having like a bad relationship and you want to be like run, run, like a pack of hyenas is nipping at your heels, but you can't do it, so you just sit there and you're like, hmm, okay, what is that reminding you? But like some right, like I wanted to say that to my client last week, I was like but we can't.
Speaker 1:We can't because you can't.
Speaker 2:So instead, you have to help them get to the root of that. What is this bringing me up for me? Why am I staying?
Speaker 1:here when you have a client who tells you that therapy is not working for them what do you invariably tell the client?
Speaker 2:I said because I can't come and hold your hand in between sessions and make you have difficult conversations and set boundaries. And I said because I actually had a client that said oh, but my sister, she's so fat and she's so happy and therapy works for her. And I said well, first of all, she's fat and happy because she's confident in who she is and so the weight is not an impact on her self-esteem. I said she's comfortable with who she is. I said and therapy works with her because she does the work.
Speaker 2:I said, if I said, I said I cannot come to your house and hold your hand and say like, hey, let's have that really hard conversation with your husband right now. Oh, let's go here and tell your boss that you don't like this. No, and you know what? Let's listen to what she hasn't said since that therapy doesn't work for her. Right, because that was about three or four weeks ago. And now last week she came in smiling and happy, because sometimes you have to tell people about themselves If you're not going to do the work, it's not going to work.
Speaker 1:It's not going to work.
Speaker 2:And some people don't need therapy to do the work, but some people do need therapy to do the work. But, at the end of the day, do the work. Because if we lived in a world full of people who did the work on themselves and I listened to a lecture by Gabor Mate last week, right where they had this whole thing called conversations with Gabor and somebody got up and said you know, like well, if we all did the work, and he said, yeah, but in this lifetime that's not happening, so you're just going to have to live in a toxic world and just do the work and be content with yourself, and then the world's always been toxic, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, and he said it's not changing in this lifetime. I mean, I think he said the Buddha twenty eight hundred years ago, the Buddha right, yeah, you know achieved, like you know, liberation, and we're still living in a toxic world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how many people waste so much time and listen. I'm all for social justice and I'm all for these things, and I'm thankful for Martin Luther King, I'm thankful for Malcolm X, I'm thankful for Gandhi, I'm thankful for Marcus Garvey, but these things are not going to change, right? The Israel and Gaza will always, unfortunately, hate each other, and if you go back 2000 years, I'm sure there were two other countries that we never heard of that always hated each other. The solutions come from within.
Speaker 2:Well, and also I think I said to you too, that's learned behavior Right, hating other people and hating another whole other culture is learned behavior.
Speaker 1:If people love themselves.
Speaker 2:Because when you are born, you are completely essential. Yeah, you have no opinions, you don't know trauma, you know absolutely nothing at the moment. That you come out of that womb Right and you are completely of your essence. That you come out of that womb right and you are completely of your essence, but it's these, all of these other influences, these external influences that we're talking about, right.
Speaker 1:This is all stuff that impacts who people are and who they become, and I want to make an argument, which is this I know myself, I know what I like, I know what I don't like, and this is the. This is the greatest lesson that Jesus ever taught in the Bible was treat people like you want to treat yourself If you knew yourself. But here's the thing I've come to discover is, most people in the world don't know themselves. Don't know themselves.
Speaker 2:But here's the other thing too, and I just had this thought when you work with couples, right, if both couples were in touch with themselves and who they were, their marriage would probably be a lot more successful. Yeah, right, because you wouldn't be sitting here and thinking all these things about the other person, cause, like you really wouldn't care what they did, right, right, like you know, I mean, you and I both have things, and I tell every single person that I know for everything I don't like about you. You can, I'm sure, find at least one thing that I don't like about you, but who cares? I don't care, I know who you are and you were this person, and that's why you know. Funnily enough, when your ex-wife right, who we have a lot of compassion for, when your ex-wife sent me that crazy email that time telling me, well, I don't want to talk badly about him, but and then she started spouting off. And what did I say to you? I knew when I met you that you could be an a-hole and I married you anyway.
Speaker 2:So now it's my responsibility. I can't turn around now and say like I don't like him anymore. He could be a real jerk. You can, but so can I.
Speaker 1:But when you go to a restaurant and I want to think about this are you worried about your dinner? Are you worried about what everyone else in the restaurant is ordering?
Speaker 2:No, I'm worried about my own self, but I'm always worried about myself, because I don't care what other people think.
Speaker 1:But here's the crazy thing is because so many people are looking for validation from other people, everybody in the world is arguing with each other because they're worried about what this other person down the street is doing.
Speaker 2:I don't care because I'm happy with myself, right, but a lot of people aren't, which is the point that you were making. And if, imagine if we lived in a world where every single person stopped and took a breath before they acted, right, right, and I mean and you know we've had a lot of turmoil in the world, right, we've had a lot of school shootings recently in the United States and it's a terrible thing, but you know it, like, we also have to teach people to be okay with not being okay and that, and that's that external thing, right, just because someone else doesn't like you doesn't mean that you have to act out on it, because that other person is also not looking internally, right?
Speaker 1:right, right, right, right. So I, I, you know, when we say this all the time, um, especially when we're driving're driving and we're definitely going to do a whole episode based on that is you can see, from the way that people drive and the way people act, is that they're there Like I don't know where their minds are at, I don't know where anybody's at.
Speaker 2:They have a lack of like, a lack of awareness for themselves and also for others.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, you don't drive like that. No, I don't drive like that, but we constantly watch people just speeding around and flying through lane to lane to lane, cutting through, and it's like those people are not practicing any self-care at all.
Speaker 1:So, number one mindfulness, self-care, a call to action, lindsay, what's a call to action? That we can have listeners, that we can have listeners. What would you, as a counselor, what would you invite a listener to say? What's to reflect on?
Speaker 2:Well, just, you know, kind of sit and feel what's going on around you, identify what is the voice of someone else, what is that external right Kind of opinion or thought versus the one that your own self is telling you to do? Because we all have to learn to tune into ourselves. You do, I do. I mean, I tune into myself a little more than you do, but there's always the head that gets in the way and says like, oh, maybe I think should think about this for a minute, cause this doesn't seem right. And then it's like you do it and you're like, oh, no, it was good to listen to myself. Right, we have to get out of our heads and get into our bodies, right, really have a real somatic experience, and that helps us to really identify that kind of like what do we need to do? That's really a part of that introspection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and many years ago I worked with a corporate trainer. Her name I liked the name drop, but I will name drop Her name was Cindy Neal Great, If she's still active. I would tell you, if you listen to the show and you need a good corporate trainer, hire Cindy Neal. She was great. One of the things that Cindy Neal and it was a reflection of what Viktor Frankl said is when you are no longer able to change a situation, we are now challenged to change ourselves Right, and Cindy Neal used to say when you're in a situation at work or in a relationship that your needs are not being met, do not look externally. Hey, your manager might not ever meet your needs. Your husband or your wife or your child might not need to meet, might not ever meet your needs. You know who needs to meet your needs at that point.
Speaker 2:Yourself.
Speaker 1:Yourself Right.
Speaker 2:That's what I always say. Right, we don't need other people to approve of what we do, yeah we just need respect. Yeah, yeah, that is it. We only need respect, and if everyone respected each other and was okay with other people having opinions and not needing to be on the same page as everybody, the world would be a better place, would be a much better place. Uh, so that's where it's going to be a good place, where it'svis In Nevis, our next tropical holiday for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1:We're going to go a couple of places before we go to Nevis. Eventually, I want to get to Arizona. We're going to get to Sedona eventually.
Speaker 2:I told you I want to take a road trip, but you don't want to.
Speaker 1:I don't want to drive from New York to Sedona. We're going to take a.
Speaker 2:I want to take road trip with you, but you won't do it that's after the queen mom the queen mom is coming to nevis. She was able to convince her father that she should not go to spring break at his house and she's coming to nevis with us for two weeks in the spring well, she's going to be looking internally on the beach, and she's already, yes, and she's already decided she would like us to, you know, take her to the spa, oh, and to do all of these things with her that are going to be very expensive.
Speaker 1:This sounds like this is going to be a very expensive vacation nah, it's gonna be good. Yeah, book the cheapest hotel I could find yeah, so with that, um, I think we pretty much covered this topic. I think so, um anything you'd like to add or anything you'd like to say, I always say just kind of go within, see what you feel, meditate, meditate.
Speaker 2:I always say meditate, be meditative, be mindful, have a practice in your life, even if it's not, that connect with yourself in some way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then for me, the only thing I want to add is there are some books cause I'm all about the research guy.
Speaker 1:You know, I used to say, well, in my notes and in several listeners, kristen Lindsay, other folks we're like, oh, we don't like when you say it's in your notes, so I won't say that so.
Speaker 1:So several things that I've put down, I'm going to say it, I'm going to be an ass in my notes is the Undiscovered Self by. If this is a book, that, if you, if you want to find out more on this topic, about becoming becoming more familiar with yourself and looking inward, the undiscovered self by Carl Jung, um, and you spell young J U N G, it's C A R L, first name, last name J U N G Jung explores the tension between individual self-awareness and mass conformity. And, believe it or not, guys, we live in an America that that either both sides are trying to conform, you right? What's one of the things I'm going to? I'm going to go on a rant for a second, but one of the things Lindsay always says is no one should be a Democrat, no one should be a Republican, but what should people vote for within what you say, lindsay?
Speaker 2:What aligns with you. What aligns with you Do what works for you, because nobody falls all the way to the left or all the way to the right If you say that you do. I don't believe you. I really don't believe you.
Speaker 1:And if you do fall all the way to the left or fall all the way to the right, I'm going to tell you you're entitled to do something, but also. I'm going to say you're an idiot Because you're not following your self-interest right, but I well, who knows, maybe they are.
Speaker 2:No, maybe they are. I do respect whatever way you fall.
Speaker 1:That's why I don't talk politics and I don't talk religion, yeah, but when people are extreme it leads back to rigidity, right? So the undiscovered self, another great book to read, and I'm sure everyone in grad school, if you're, if you're or sociology, has read this as man's search for meaning, by Viktor Frankl, which discusses finding meaning from within, even in the face of external circumstances. Yep, okay, and I think that's pretty much it, lindsay, that's it. And if you've enjoyed this episode, this has been Cleveland.
Speaker 2:And Lindsay.
Speaker 1:And this has been another episode of the Devil you Don't Know. Know. If you've enjoyed us, please rate and review us.
Speaker 2:Uh, subscribe, like we have a feature now where you can text us directly, or still didn't even know that, even though I said I guess you'll get the text, I guess I get the text.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, I don't, I don't check my text.
Speaker 2:So don't bother, because none of us get them.
Speaker 1:Or you can text us directly or you can email us at get to know the devil at gmail dot com. Ok, and this has been another episode of the devil you don't know. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time you.
