The Devil You Don’t Know
In The Devil You Don’t Know, Lindsay, Cleveland, and their guests discuss personal growth and development by taking chances and getting out of your comfort zone. Topics range from whimsical to serious and everything in between but are always relevant to growth and development.
The Devil You Don’t Know
Mindful Living: Letting Go of Rehearsing and Rehashing by Embracing the Present
What happens when unsuspecting guests discover they’re at a vegan B&B? Find out as we recount our delightful stay at the Black Sheep Inn and Spa, complete with two-hour vegan breakfasts and the warm hospitality of Simon and Miranda. Plus, we give a shout-out to our loyal listener Kim, whose heartfelt note made our day, and share our excitement over our new Breville air fryer—a real game-changer in our kitchen.
Todd’s woodworking skills take center stage as we celebrate his incredible craftsmanship, from hardwood floors to custom furniture. Reflecting on personal growth, we express gratitude to a former employer whose encouragement was life-changing. We then navigate the sensitive terrain of racial stereotypes and microaggressions, stressing the importance of understanding cultural contexts and rejecting harmful labels. A scandal involving a church and a lively birthday party spark deeper conversations about faith, family, and the complexities of human behavior.
Mindfulness and mental well-being are crucial themes as we discuss the dangers of rehearsing and rehashing past and future events. Drawing inspiration from Stephen Covey and Albert Ellis, among others, we offer practical strategies to stay present and combat catastrophic thinking. We explore self-compassion and narrative therapy, emphasizing the importance of reframing our experiences. Tune in for valuable insights, personal stories, and resources to help you break the cycle of overthinking and live a more mindful, balanced life.
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
This is Cleveland.
Speaker 2:This is Lindsay.
Speaker 1:And this is another episode of the Devil. You Don't Know, lindsay, tell the folks. What are we going to be talking about today?
Speaker 2:Rehearsing and rehashing.
Speaker 1:But before we get into that topic, I want to be a little bit scandalous, oh, and do a little bit of gossip. A little bit of gossip, but we won't say names. We won't say names. I see the look on your face.
Speaker 2:Oh, because I don't know what you're going to talk about.
Speaker 1:Oh, I won't say names. We won't say names. I see the look on your face, oh, because I don't know what you're going to. Oh, I told you in the pre-show when we were talking about that I was going to be surprising. So a little bit of gossip, so just a bit of housekeeping for those of you who are regular followers for the show. Kim, I'm talking to you, um, and Lindsay wants me to ask you that that nice note that you sent me, like, how have we saved your life? Um, so the Kim, this is a personal shout out to you Thank you for being a loyal listener since the very beginning. We appreciate you, we, we love your support, um, and maybe we'll have you on the show one day, uh, but we really appreciate the email, the kind note that you sent us. So I just want to just take a moment and say thank you. And so, for our regular listeners, we took a week off last week, inadvertently, right, because we went to the finger lakes.
Speaker 2:We did. And who did we go see in the finger lakes? Well, we went to the black sheep inn and spa, our favorite place to stay up there, the only place we've ever stayed up there, actually the only place and we stayed there again, that's the 100 vegan bed and breakfast and it always amazes me that at least one couple shows up per visit. That is absolutely surprised, that the place is vegan absolutely yes, I told you the first time I booked it.
Speaker 1:I didn't know it was vegan yeah, yeah, because remember, uh, simon, uh, that the young couple that came in and he was like you know the guy. He said that guy looks like he shoots deer regularly.
Speaker 2:But he was very happy to take a little doggy bag of muffins with him for the day.
Speaker 1:Yes, Simon said, the guy just said I love you very much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, they're just amazing and we did have them on the show really early on and I think the audio was pretty poor when we were just learning how to use all of our equipment when we were just learning how to use all of our equipment.
Speaker 1:Plus, the reception up there is just horrible. Yeah, the reception was horrible, so we do need to have them on the show again eventually. Um, they're one of our favorite couples, one of our favorite people in the world, uh, but I was supposed to bring the recording equipment and me being a man and forgetful, I didn't.
Speaker 2:So we took a week off for labor day, inadvertently but we did have a really great time, and one of the things that I really love about staying there is how friendly everybody is, but not only that the two hour long vegan breakfast. Oh, it's amazing when you just sit at a table and they wait on you. Yeah, I mean, simon is running around like he's 25 years old.
Speaker 1:Simon and Miranda, if you listen to the show, you need help, we will, you know. So, simon is if you ever watch In Living Color. There was an old skid on In Living Color with a Jamaican family and it was like oh and, I got three job and I got five. And they used to argue amongst themselves like who is the better or who is more Jamaican because of the jobs. Simon and Miranda are cooks, cleaners, we, we, we, landscapers.
Speaker 2:Landscapers. He was mowing the lawn and he has two other jobs.
Speaker 1:Two other jobs Um. I love you guys. I do not know how you do it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. But I mean you do it very well, amazingly well. My, I mean nobody ever really cooks anything for me. I mean, maybe I can get you to like air fry me something once in a while I can air fry the crap out of some stuff.
Speaker 1:You really can and I just got a new air fryer. You got a Breville. Got a Breville. Made me send back the Ninja double stack, but it was meant to be. We walked into the home since this afternoon and there it was on a shelf my dream air fryer. I, my dream air fryer. I wanted this thing for years. It's like normally 400.
Speaker 2:I think you looked it up someplace it was at walmart, was it 500? I was just too cheap to buy it yeah, and it was on sale in home.
Speaker 1:Since, for the low price of 299, 299, had to do it and had to send me. Had to do it. Yeah, had to send the ninja fry back. Ninja, we love you, but lindsey has wanted a breville air fryer for the longest time, so this is like the mother of all air fryers.
Speaker 2:But anyway, let's go back just for a moment to the inn, because nobody ever cooks anything for me, ever. Cleve will bring me seltzer and that's what I'm. Maybe something in the microwave he can heat up in a, a glass of wine Sometimes. But he we go there and we go outside in the morning and I was able to do some typing and catching up on a little bit of work and then at eight o'clock Simon just appears with oat, milk, coffee, fresh orange juice, the most amazing granola Miranda's homemade granola. She must be making granola every day, every day and fresh fruit. There were four kinds of granola on the table.
Speaker 1:And now she's got that cherry one. That was my favorite.
Speaker 2:Awesome. And then, after you finish with that, these fresh baked goods appear. We had vegan croissants. We had three different kinds of muffins, I think oh, weren't those?
Speaker 1:croissants. Oh, the croissant were so good that I'm going to stop you for a second, and you know what I'm going to say the only croissant that I have had. That was, and I'm going to say, miranda's was better than than Laurent's. We were in Guadalupe, which is a French island in the Caribbean, claire and Laurent, at the time. I'm hope that they're still there, and if they're not, I wish them a great life. They are there, oh, they are still there. So we got to go back, but where was the? What was the name of the place? Le Jardin Malanga?
Speaker 1:We stayed at this wonderful Garden of Eden in French, this wonderful secluded place In the jungle In the jungle, and it was run by this lovely French couple and Laurent was a chef, french trained chef oh amazing. And the guy made fresh made food every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean I'm vegan, so I couldn't really partake in a lot of the things, but he did. I can't even say he did what he did for me, because he asked me to never. Well, that was years ago, so you can talk about it. He did make me vegan food every night, which was a challenge because they have pretty much a set menu. Yeah, and they ask you during the day are you going to want wine with your dinner? Are you going to want fish or meat? And then that's it, and he made me such wonderful vegan cuisine while we were there. But anyway, back to these croissants.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, but they were on par with Laurent's. That's what I wanted to say, you know, while we gave the Le Jardin Malanga a plug, if you ever find yourself in Guadalupe, please visit Le Jardin.
Speaker 2:Malanga oh, I mean that place. Really, we could talk about that just briefly, because we had that cottage up on the hill with views of all the outlying islands, and it had a hammock, and I just spent the whole week in the hammock. Yeah, it was great, it was a good time, it was a beautiful place. But anyway, back to this. So you have your baked goods and then they're constantly replenishing things and refilling coffee and running around, and then there's another meal after that where you have a main course and by then you're just stuffed. You're stuffed, but it's so good you can't stop. And healthy though, oh, it was so well, I mean, I guess, if you call it eggy tofu with sausage sandwich and vegan cheese healthy, I think it's healthier than mcdonald's. I mean, we really didn't eat again all day after that, but it was just that. It's for me, it wasn't, wasn't even so much. I mean, the food is fabulous. For me, it's just being waited on and being able to relax over a two hour meal.
Speaker 1:And the genuine conversation and friendship that we have. You know, we not only were um you know Simon and Miranda but our friends Debbie and Todd were there.
Speaker 2:We met them last year, such a lovely couple from up in. They live in Buffalo, rochester, right so lovely, lovely couple and we met them last year and they're back again this year and we just really had such a fun time with them. Yeah, great time, great, just really down to earth people. I mean Todd is immensely talented, super talented. He's like a woodworker and I think for a living, he, he, he's like a woodworker and, I think, for a living, he, he installs hardwood floors.
Speaker 2:I think he has like his own company, yes, but it's like a hobby of his to just do woodworking and he makes so many wonderful things. I mean chandeliers, cornhole games, furniture. He showed us pictures of his daughter's kitchen and bedroom. He built her a bed with storage under it and I thought, wow, this guy's amazing, you need to go and apprentice of his daughter's kitchen and bedroom. He built her a bed with storage under it and I thought, wow, this guy's amazing, you need to go and apprentice under him.
Speaker 1:Listen him and elmer and I don't know if we talked about it. No, we, I don't think we did, I don't know. We, him and elmer out in lancaster, need to get together.
Speaker 2:We'll never hear this and and they will be the gods, because he doesn't use the technology, I don't know. He told me to call him on his landline. He's like on his crank phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on his crank phone. Anyway, wonderful time. That's. That's the. That's the the. The long explanation of why we didn't record last week is because we were on vacation Labor Day, weekend, endless PTO, wonderful time. Thank you for thank you to my former. I will say thank you once again to my former employer for encouraging me very much to make necessary changes to help me stop lying to myself to help me stop lying to myself and realize that I was not enjoying my life.
Speaker 1:So I want to thank you guys once again for that. But um, that aside, let's now get to the scandal. I told you I was going to spend a couple of minutes gossiping, so so two scandalous things I want to talk about, I feel like you're flailing your arms around.
Speaker 2:You're going to knock something over. I'm fine. I'm fine. I always get nervous.
Speaker 1:I talk with my hands, I know You've got a glass in front of you, though I used to work in an Italian neighborhood, so I talk with my hands. Oh, yes, and a West Indian neighborhood, what's?
Speaker 2:interesting this week too let's just divert for one second, really briefly was how that person that I know told me that you don't act like most black people and I had to ask what? How to black? How to black people act? I mean, I don't really think that people realize that what comes out of their mouth is so incredibly inappropriate.
Speaker 1:If you told me I was acting like Kamala Harris, then I'd be like yes, maybe I am acting like a black person, because it does drive me crazy that Kamala Harris and I'm and this is not, I'm not a political, I'm just a body language guy has one way that she talks in front of black audiences and another way that she talks in front of white audiences. It does drive me crazy. However, not to steal from your story yet what is acting black?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know. I couldn't get an explanation when I asked. But anyway, let's go back to your scandal.
Speaker 1:So I just thought that was a very interesting. Well, that could be part of the scandal, because it was. It was a scandalous thing to say, like what is well?
Speaker 2:and it's not the first time that this individual has made, you know, really kind of like microaggressive remarks.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, I mean at your birthday that year that she wasn't even invited to and you know what we can definitely do a whole podcast on acting black, because that is actually a thing where black folks have said well, you don't act black enough, or?
Speaker 2:or you don't even understand what that means.
Speaker 1:I don't understand what it means either.
Speaker 2:Would you go to Appalachia and tell, like the poor people in the mountains, that they don't act white?
Speaker 1:enough. They don't act. White enough, no.
Speaker 2:I mean? What does it mean to act white or act black?
Speaker 1:But anyway, let's get to your scandal, because I still don't know what it is. I don't know what it is, but to get to the scandal, I think you do know what it is. Listen it's. It's stupid, right, because there is we'll. We'll talk about this for one second. Culturally, people have a certain culture, right. And so if I was, I'm black, I'm African-American, I'm black. But if I was raised in China, I would be Chinese because that would be my culture, right. So to say that a person acts black or acts white or acts Chinese or acts Puerto Rican is kind of stupid. Because you act like the people that you are around, right, you act like your culture. It is not like you are suddenly born in God or whatever you believe in. The universe programs you. This guy is black.
Speaker 2:But don't you think all people act differently around different people? Of course they do.
Speaker 1:Kamala Harris certainly does, but I'm OK, and that's a political talk.
Speaker 2:You know I don't like that. I know you hate it but no, yes, yes but of course, but I also know when I tell you things, you often don't care and talk about them anyway. So carry on. No, I'm not going to do it. That's what men. That's what men see me rolling.
Speaker 1:I see you rolling your eyes. If this was a video podcast, folks would see you rolling your eyes, but I'm going to respect you. I'm not going to make any more jokes in that extent. But no, seriously, yeah, you are what you culturally act like. I act like Cleveland. That's who I am and I would never tell someone they act black or they act white or whatever, because you are who you are.
Speaker 1:Mm hmm, yeah, I agree, the sum of all those systems. You are not an ethnic. You know you are from an ethnic background, but you are not the color of your skin, Absolutely. You know what what had been school used to say don't let your zip code define your destiny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so so when somebody says your husband doesn't act black, Right, well, I mean, I'd actually want to talk about education on a different episode, because I do think that's an important point that you made is that he did go to. I mean, he was one of two white kids in high school, right, yeah, in his graduating class rather, and it wasn't it wasn't a very large graduating class. Why do these neighborhoods identify people and why do people, you know, kind of be, continue to be stuck in a cycle and unable to get out? And you know, he was very lucky and the other students there, I mean, we have the resources to send him to college, but you know, he, the other students there are very lucky because the school also follows them through college, with mentors that will go to the campus and check on people, no matter where it is, and I think that's a really remarkable thing and obviously that takes also resources, which is charter school was lucky to have a, you know, a pretty big donor pool, yeah, but, yeah, we'll talk about that in another episode, cause that's a hot topic for me, super hot. Yeah, we'll definitely get into that.
Speaker 2:And you see I'm sweating again. I've been having the worst hot flashes. Well, you closed the door.
Speaker 2:I closed the door because the Queen Mum is home now and she's going to come marching down the hall to look for a snack and then she's going to tool around in the bathroom and brush her hair and use a blow dryer, and then it's going to be loud.
Speaker 1:And then you know also, betty the cat would come. Who's obsessed with me these days? Oh my God, so obsessed, it's insane.
Speaker 2:Yes, anyway, go ahead. What is the scandal? So the scandal.
Speaker 1:So two things. I'm sorry, guys, this is the long Listen. We haven't talked to you. This is how we banter to you all the time at home. Yeah, but we haven't talked to our audience in like two weeks. No longer so it's. We're just catching you up on on the tea, as as Heaven Sent would say.
Speaker 2:And there's so many, so many things I want to talk about. So scandal one OK, what is it?
Speaker 1:Heaven Sent. Oh no, who is delivering and anointing and anointing people? Oh my Lord. At the church, oh my Lord, I'm going to go visit, no, no, now here's the thing, guys. I'm not coming. You know, all of my friends of last night and this is going to be scandal too is the birthday party we went to all my friends. I'm telling them you know that my daughter is who, who, and I love my daughter very much and I'm not going to make beautiful girl yeah, absolutely beautiful girl, but I think just really kind of stuck right now in her life and not really knowing who she is, yeah, and I, and I'm not going to make fun of her, of her faith.
Speaker 1:I never thought in a million years that I would say to anyone, let alone my daughter if expel, if expelling demons is part of you, what you believe, then, little girl, you go ahead and do. That is, which is is what I said. So I am going.
Speaker 2:Why? But I mean, the whole thing started because she invited you to go to her church, because they were going to be anointing and delivering souls as her pastor had just returned from performing exorcisms in.
Speaker 1:Africa. This is going to be some interesting.
Speaker 2:Where are the people I am not coming?
Speaker 1:Where are the people who are probably acting black? And when you get home?
Speaker 2:I've already decided what I'm gonna do. You're gonna sage me. I'm gonna sage you before you come in the front door, because I do not need you to bring any of that in. Oh my god, what a scandal it is, because now I've been doing a little of my own research and this pastor is worth quite a bit of quite a bit of money.
Speaker 2:You won't say the name of the church then telling all of the other people that he would like to anoint and deliver with him, that the him, that this is not a um, this is not for income, but it's amazing because that dude is worth quite a bit of money, yeah, so I guess for him it is, but not for anyone else. I mean, it kind of sounds like a cult. Yeah, and the feedback that guy in waco who moved all those people in like watch out, soon she's gonna go off to africa and she's gonna be in a mud hut well, at least she'll know how to act black.
Speaker 1:Thank you so. So thank you very much for you know, for that, for that.
Speaker 2:Well, she clearly didn't learn that from you. Well, she clearly didn't learn it from me, because you don't act like black people.
Speaker 1:I don't act like black people. Obviously, according to that person, I'm going to be that person's probably listening to this podcast. I know, I think I know what you're going to talk about Is related to scandal number one in the extent that remember when the bar last night wonderful birthday party birthday party. Our friend Anthony. Great guy. He was 66, 66 years young, wonderful. His wife invited us out, you know great party at the bar, yeah.
Speaker 2:Around the corner.
Speaker 1:They had some hors d'oeuvres and great party at the bar. And then someone who needed to be both anointed and delivered walked at the bar. And then someone who needed to be both anointed and delivered walked into the bar.
Speaker 2:Oh God, she's a very bad reputation.
Speaker 1:I, and what was funny is Dom had just really literally said to me yo bro, if you go to your daughter's church, I'm don't don't come around me for like a week, because you're going to come back with all sorts of ghosts and spirits and demons on you. And then this person walks in with all the ghosts and demons and spirits on them, and this is a person, an individual that does not. You know what I shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't, make fun, but this person is very unaware.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's not even making fun, right. But this person is very unaware, right, and it's not even making fun, right. There is like a sadness to this, right, because, yes, clearly she's very unaware of how she's perceived by other people, very much so. And you know, just for a little background, I didn't know you were going to talk about her, but you know she's known in the neighborhood to you know, she's not a girl's girl, not a girl. She will not talk to any of the women in any of the restaurants or bars and she will go directly to the husbands Always. And Donna did ask me last night. Well, you know, she won't even say hi. Why doesn't she talk to us? And I was like, because she's not a girl's girl. She will sleep with your husband in hot second, in a hot second, and she will does. She's known for doing that around the neighborhood.
Speaker 2:But there's also a sadness, right, because you have to be very lonely, very much, very much to do that right. So it's like every situation that you look at with somebody right, as like, audacious as it is on the outside right, there has to be deep pain and conflict on the inside for her. So, right, she owns this massive house right on the water. It's completely renovatedated. She's divorced, um, she's constantly having weight loss surgeries and using weight loss shots and she's, you know, always on dates, but then she can't help herself because we'll see her on a date and then she'll be flirting with other people and then the date will get up and leave.
Speaker 1:Yes, isn't that so crazy. And so we had just finished talking about Heavens and delivering and anointing, and then this person walks in and they back Dom into a corner. And then Donna's like you got it. Oh, she's like mad and I was like listen, I'll go over there and I'll join in and, you know, tried to get Dom out. It actually got made things worse where this person looks at me and is like Ooh, tell me about you. And I was like you've met me before.
Speaker 1:And I'm married and you've met my wife, you know me and then says to me and Dom, this may be a secret, I'm a little drunk, so first of all, you're here, you're not invited, you're crashing the party. And then I'd say, dom, if anybody needs to be anointed and delivering, is this person right here. It was like let me slam my hand on her forehead and I swear to you I will pull the ghosts out. Right, and I think if Heaven Sent saw this person, that Heaven Sent would be like there you go, dad, watch me work. And I and I really do think she could have delivered that chick, I really do.
Speaker 2:That's very funny. Let's talk about what else happened. I declined to drink, which? I don't like more scandal. You know, I don't really. I told you like I don't really do so much of the drinking anymore. I no longer really enjoy it, really enjoy it. You know, I think also it's just that I've done so much training and so much work on myself that you know, I don't always want to, you know, be in a state where I'm not like fully present, but like I kept getting offered this complimentary sangria that no one wanted, nobody wanted.
Speaker 2:But well, and I already had heard it was disgusting, like from you know, six times ago, cause every time anyone in your neighborhood goes anywhere, it's this one establishment. But I kept saying I don't want it, I don't want it. So you took it and thought you'd be kind and just like, take one for the team. So you're like, I'll take it, I'll take it. And then you were like, oh, this is disgusting. And then you promptly went and flushed it down the toilet in the bathroom.
Speaker 2:When you went to the bathroom, you just, you know, snuck it in with you and then she got annoyed that you finished it so quickly and then she still continued to try to give me and I kept saying, no, thank you, I'm good, no, thank you, I'm good, until she finally said well, why don't we want it? Are you pregnant? Yeah, which is crazy like. First of all, no, bite your tongue, I told her, because we have a lot of the children. But second of all, who says that to somebody says that, what if I was an alcoholic? Yeah, and I didn't want it. Yeah, right, like you know. You just don't say that. You have to be aware of people and be okay if they don't want something, or they do want something. Why did it? How did it impact her night if I drank the gross sangria or not?
Speaker 1:Absolutely did not. And and and I say this, and we say this with love and appreciation, because we love this bar, we love these folks Um, it was just a. It was just a terrible drink that no one was weird, those things were all over the bar because nobody would drink it, so they would all take it because they felt bad.
Speaker 2:I was the only one who didn't bite and take one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But and then they'd take a sip and they'd you'd find them all over and I was like, hey, donna, there's your drink. She's like, that's not mine yeah, that's not mine.
Speaker 1:Mine is in. The mine is burning a hole through the concrete on city island avenue.
Speaker 2:She's like I got a grapefruit martini instead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so so anyway, no, but anyway, that was 20 minutes of banter, but we missed you guys, hopefully we did, we did.
Speaker 1:But let's get into the topic, let's get into the topic at hand, which is rehearsing and rehashing, and so in this episode, we are going to explore the concept of rehearsing and rehashing. Uh, when I think of rehearsing and rehashing and this is a concept that I first learned from lindsey, who taught, who told me that I often rehearse and rehash, and this is a concept that I first learned from Lindsay, who taught, who told me that I often rehearse and rehash it's catastrophic thinking. Um, it's thinking about the future, which is the rehearsing part but it's also not being able to escape from the past and re obsessing over past mistakes.
Speaker 2:Right and that was something that they talked about when I was on that silent retreat a few weeks back was everybody spends so much time rehearsing and rehashing, rehearsing and rehashing that you're never present in the moment. Whatever happened, you can keep rehashing it, but it still happened. Yeah Right. And now that's something I talk a lot about with my clients is, you know, stop rehashing and the rehearsing. When I think of that, I think of you, anticipate something's coming up, and then you're like how am I going to present myself? How am I going to present myself? What am I going to say? And you start to like create a whole, you know, conversation in your head about what you're going to say and what you're going to do and how you're going to behave in a situation.
Speaker 2:And then, often you get there and it didn't even matter, because none of what you rehearsed actually is applicable to what's going to be asked of you.
Speaker 1:As I talked to one of my clients, uh, last week, and we talked about this idea of anxiety and fear and how fear is different from anxiety, um, he often said that rehearsing would often lead him to an overcorrection, which would then make things worse and actually make things blow up. So I, I talked to me and you you've seen me do that right Talk to me about it.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, you rehash things a lot. So when something happens in your life, you will tell me the story 500 times and sometimes I just have to say to you you know what? Why don't you just sit down and let's just be quiet for a couple of minutes? Because you're like, oh my God, and can you believe this? And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, but we already talked about it 20 times. So, like you know, the thing is with the rehashing of it, it doesn't change what happened, it doesn't change the outcome of the situation?
Speaker 1:No, not at all, not at all. And you know, as I, as I spoke to somebody the other day and talked about this concept of rehearsing and rehashing, I was like, does it really benefit you? One of the things that John C Maxwell talks about in the set.
Speaker 2:The only time rehearsing I think benefits people is when they're like in a play or something.
Speaker 1:That's the only time, but one of the things that John C Maxwell talks about in the book the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People is measure twice, cut once right.
Speaker 2:So measure twice. I hate to tell you this, but I was just going to wipe like a cat hair off your face. No, but I just saw that it was a wrinkle, oh, oh no a wrinkle.
Speaker 1:No, that's unacceptable. I have no wrinkles. I'm I'm, I'm internally young, carry on, but I'll carry on. But one of the things that that Dr Covey talked about in the seven habits of highly impact effective people is measure twice, cut once. So, yes, do you have to have a degree of a plan? Do you have to have a small rehearsal? Yes, but should you rehearse over and over again?
Speaker 1:And that's one of the things that I've done, that I've been guilty of. I can tell you, like a month ago, when I that's probably the only time that I did not rehearse or rehash constantly, because it was all that I, you know, had the discussion, the conversations were had that I was not happy with and I didn't sit and I didn't think about it and go over it over and over again and I was like nah, that's it, I'm done, I'm out. However, there have been other circumstances in my life where I've actually replayed whole conversations in my head and spoken out loud about them. That is definitely rehearsing and it's definitely rehashing. And as I sat down and asked the client the time that you spent and it's a client that used to that does the same thing and he said that he'll spend like hours doing it, the time that you spend rehearsing and rehashing lens what could you be doing with that?
Speaker 2:Being present and enjoying what's happening in your life, right, I mean, I have a specific couple that I think about, because I do have a couple who the male half of the couple constantly will bring up stuff from the past. And literally last week he said and in 2015, I thought, I thought if you were having problems nine years ago, okay, then I'm pretty sure you shouldn't have gotten married and you shouldn't have then had a baby.
Speaker 1:And rehashing in that context is not no it's not helpful at all in a marriage.
Speaker 2:They're like now reliving all of these past arguments, and the whole idea of couples therapy is do you want to stay together? You want to love each other and continue to work on this? If the answer is yes, you have to stop doing that and give your partner a chance to be trusted. Right, you do, and if you cannot do that, you cannot make it work and absolutely love, does not keep account of the injury uh, yes, that's what I told them the other day.
Speaker 2:I, that's your, one of the you know your favorite things to say. We don't do that in our relationship. No, we will fight, we will, but we don't go back and talk about it again. No, although today you did ask me something about uh in the past. Well, when haven't I done that? And I'm like dude, you've been doing that for eight years, like, but the thing is is like I and it's like the things that people fight about, right, and I mean this guy was like the week before that, it was like an in one November of last year, and I'm like what I, november of last year, like I can't remember what I did two weeks ago.
Speaker 1:I can't remember what I did 15 minutes ago.
Speaker 2:I mean 2015. And then he said you know, in our entire relationship there have been eight occasions when we should have broken up and so he's keeping account of the injury which means he must be keeping, like a, an encyclopedia of events of now.
Speaker 1:Now, when you rehash in that method, right, because I want to, I I want to think about what, what the the, these key concepts. Why is rehearsing bad? What does that lead to in a physical state or in a mental state?
Speaker 2:Well, the problem with the rehearsing is, you know that you're sitting here and you're creating a potential scenario and I always say that it's like a future tripping right. You're so worried about what's going to happen in the future, You're trying to plan it out, but you can't plan it out, and so then, 99% of the time I think we talked about this today 99% of the time it doesn't actually come to fruition the way that you rehearsed. So you've wasted all that time and the more time that you do that you're not here now. Right, right, and I think that's the most important thing. Right Is just be here now right, that Right.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think that's the most important thing, right, it's just be here now. Right, that's that book Ram Dass wrote about. Right, he wrote the book called Be here Now, be in the moment, be here every single moment. So you know, it's OK to not be OK all the time. Yeah, it's OK to just sit and do nothing and be with yourself. But you know, be here now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of folks either worry about a future that is unknowable or obsess over a past that is unchangeable, and many people are not present. Period Right. And so rehashing and I'll and I think about this when I think about rehashing why rehashing is is it's different than reviewing a mistake. Right, it's okay to review a mistake as I sit down with clients and we I do a sports analogy lebron, james, um, steph curry, mike tyson you know these guys, when michael jordan, when they're in the top of their game, tom brady, they will look at tapes about why they lost, and that's okay to look at the tape one time and say this was the mistake that I made one time, but what does rehash?
Speaker 2:but is that really rehashing or is that preparing for the future?
Speaker 2:it's preparing for the future because that's what I think too is you can rehash something once to say, okay, this is how I do it better next time, next time, or do it differently next time. Right, because I think about that all the time. It's's I mean think about. I was talking to you about this during um, you know, when we were talking about. You know clients, sometimes we kind of bounce ideas off of each other. And this client said like the oh, the wife doesn't give him good gifts. And I was like dude, half the time my husband can't even remember when my birthday is. And the thing is, I was like why don't you just tell him what you want? Tell her what you want, like. And I said. I said if you were to meet my husband right now, I said he will tell you the next gift that I would like, and we can test that right here, if you remember.
Speaker 1:I thought I just got it.
Speaker 2:It's in the little blue box, remember. Oh my God, I'll remind you again, though it's in the little blue box. Oh my god, I'll remind you again, though it's in the little blue box.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know the store that has the little blue box, because everybody, oh, yes, yes, I know what you want, you know what I want, yeah, yeah and so that's the thing, right.
Speaker 2:I don't why am I gonna fight with you?
Speaker 1:I don't work near there anymore, so I'm gonna have to make.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's one in the westchester mall okay, you can go when you go to the barber. So you're good, I got it planned out for you.
Speaker 1:Boom. Thank you, that's a good life.
Speaker 2:Am I going to fight with you? No, because you, you know, the idea is is like a gift, is a material thing anyway, an attachment, right. So am I going? A mind reader? I had to tell you that I wanted something from Tiffany, and you will, I'm sure, get it.
Speaker 2:Last year I gave you a list and you bought me beautiful earrings. Thank you that. I get many, many compliments on All the compliments, like gorgeous crystal earrings from Swarovski, yeah Right, and like the thing is is like I could just tell you what I want and you tell me what you want, and I think in our relationship I'm just better at saying like, oh, you know, this is I think he would like this and I'll get it for him, and he's more like what do you want me to get you? Right, and it works for us.
Speaker 2:It's not a fight. It's not something you got to bring to couples therapy because it's not a big deal.
Speaker 1:It's not a big deal. You're a student of compassionate inquiry. You're doing, you've been doing the training. What are some things that Gabor Mate would say on this idea of of rehearsing and rehashing?
Speaker 2:Well, he would probably say that it's a waste of time, right, and you're rehashing because it's bringing up an unhealed wound in you, right? So why is it bothering you so much that you're talking about it today? Because in that situation with this client and this couple, right, it wasn't even about the gift giving, right, it was probably about all of the abandonment issues and never having someone give gifts in childhood.
Speaker 1:The way I think about rehashing is in the way I'm sure Mate thinks about it, that it becomes unproductive reflection.
Speaker 2:It becomes and you ever start a computer, Right, I mean but like well, he says right, your emotions are valid, but the story's no longer valid. Whatever happened in 2015. Sure, okay, it opened a wound in you, right, right, you felt bad. It reminded you of an event earlier in your life where you were hurt or upset or whatever emotion it brought up for you. However, the story is no longer valid because it's nine years later. Create a new story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the example I want to bring up you ever turn on a computer or go to a website and you just get that. Oh the circle of doom. That is what rehashing is it is. This page is not loading. The future is not loading because you are having unproductive reflection. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, you're stuck in this doom loop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just. It just takes you out of the moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, john C Maxwell talks about that idea and he says that it becomes a repetitive thing, that you create a self-fulfilling prophecy where your negative thoughts doom you because you're so stuck in a story, and that's the whole point. And that's where rehearsing and rehashing get you messed up.
Speaker 2:Well, and you and I were talking about this too with the other child, who's having a little bit of a breakdown today that it's like it's not helping you to move forward to be stuck in the like victim mentality, and we did a whole episode on that. So at some point the scales have to tip and being tired and fed up, and then you make a change and you stop doing that. If this couple really wanted to work on it, they would stop that nonsense that we literally sit there every single week and talk about. And the thing is, it's hard because they're both so different. She doesn't do the rehashing, yeah. And then he's like well, I don't even think she loves me, you know she. My therapist said you know, maybe she doesn't love you. And I was like well, she's sitting right here, so why don't you turn and ask her? Right, because that's the thing too. Right.
Speaker 2:And these couples that I see too, it's like they're so busy rehashing they don't even look at each other when they rehash. They're looking, they're separated, they're not next to each other, they turn away from each other, right. And then I have the one couple who has done so much work on themselves and they don't even really need to come anymore and they just asked me last week if they can come every week instead of two weeks. But he sits there with his arm around her and if she cries he gives her a tissue Right and I'm like it's. They have put all of their past stuff behind. They do not rehash, they move forward.
Speaker 1:They move forward.
Speaker 2:And they do very well, because they move forward right. Their communication issues have been, you know, mostly resolved. They're like love for each other, they're reconnected, they support each other and they're able to communicate in a healthy way. Because they don't do that? Yeah?
Speaker 1:When I think of the importance of narrative therapy. And narrative therapy is this idea there's a therapy where you think of your life as a story and yourself as a character in a story and think about going to see a movie and you have information that the protagonist doesn't right, and so you're watching a movie and you know the killer's around the corner and you're at the screen like don't go that way, don't go that way. Narrative therapy is helpful in that way, in that it helps take you out of the story and now you can look at what you've been doing as a character. What's wrong with rehearsing and rehashing is maybe the story. As to your point, you're rehearsing a story and rehashing a story that does not suit you anymore. But because you're so busy rehearsing and rehashing a play that no longer speaks to your life now you are upset, you're miserable, you're uncomfortable because you are in a narrative. You're rehearsing and rehashing a narrative that no longer suits you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, anything that happened in the past no longer suits you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it just doesn't suit you. I want to move on on and I know you don't know a lot about rebt, but I am a big rebt guy. That is my theoretical background.
Speaker 2:Albert ellis but, as you like to say, I read in the notes or, as I know, I haven't said that. No, I know, but I'm just you know yeah, you and you and rehashing. Yeah you and kristin um have uh brought that out to me oh my god, and let's talk about them just really quickly they're going to have, they're going to have a baby, they're going to have their baby.
Speaker 1:Very excited for them.
Speaker 2:They've been waiting for like a couple of years almost to adopt Right. And they finally have a baby coming. Oh, I'm going to cry Every time she talks to me about it.
Speaker 1:I get a little teary because I'm so happy for them. We have been wanting grandchildren for a while. And we are going to spoil the oh.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to baby shop. Oh, I just talked to her yesterday.
Speaker 1:I cannot wait. You guys don't know, you don't know, but we're going to spoil the heck out of that kid. But anyway, uncle.
Speaker 2:Cleve and Aunt Lindsay are coming over.
Speaker 1:We're coming over. We're coming over, we're taking over, we're going to do the takeover. But, that being said, albert Ellis introduced the idea of RABT, and RABT is Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. If you follow me on LinkedIn, I just wrote an article that was released this past Monday I think it's going to be this Monday on RABT and the benefits of it. It is is rational emotive behavior therapy, and so what? It is what ellis thought. What ellis believe is it's not the thing that upsets us, but is our reaction to the thing. And what ellis does. He has this abc model, which is b is the activating event, a is the emotional and behavioral or uh consequence and c is would be the rehearsing and rehashing um of it. Right, where you're just going over it over and over again and needlessly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, this is very similar to like I'm sorry, I said it wrong is B is the activating of, B is our beliefs. A is the activating event and C is the consequences of, of of that. I'm sorry, I said it wrong.
Speaker 2:Right, right, well, was thinking, abc is like the, the thing that happened, like the, the antecedent, yep right, and then b, b and the work that I do with children right, like when I work with kids with behavioral issues.
Speaker 1:Right, there's an antecedent, there's a behavior and then there's a consequence right, and what happens is, when you rehearse and rehash, you never play that through in the right way. It never plays through to its conclusion. Right, you have the belief, you have the activating event, you have the consequence, but you get stuck once again, as you said, in that doom loop. Because you never, because you're just I'm going to go over it again and I'm going to think about it again, you know, back in 2015. Yeah, you know, my, my, my, my child. I don't do that, that much.
Speaker 1:You know, my child, who is almost 30 years old in Florida, you know, actually said something to me about high school. It's like bro, bro, I didn't let you choose the high school you wanted to go to. Dude, that was six, that was going on 16 years ago. Why are you still talking about something that was 16 years later? That has nothing. What benefit is that, lindsay?
Speaker 2:There is no benefit to that. None, Because you cannot go back in time Until we have time, travel right. That's not going to resolve anything.
Speaker 1:I want you to talk a little bit about the trap of catastrophic thinking and talk about it.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean a catastrophic thinking is basically sitting here and, you know, planning for the worst case scenario in every single situation. Right, and that's and that happens a lot with people with anxiety, right, they, they create a constant suffering within themselves because they're constantly preparing for the worst thing to happen. Right, and then you meet someone like you or me in therapy and they're like, oh well, what if this happens instead? And then they're like, oh, that can happen instead. Yeah, right, you know, it's, it doesn't. It doesn't have to be like you don't have. Not everything has to be negative all the time.
Speaker 1:Right, right, tara Brock talks about this, the trap of catastrophic thinking, and it goes back to what Ellis said. So you, she has this concept of the rehearsing, or hashing, which is the second arrow, which is that you now shoot yourself with a second arrow because you're inflicting mental suffering on yourself, because you are replaying or predicting negative outcomes.
Speaker 2:It reminds me, in that same mindfulness world of attachment, the concept of attachment. Right, you've attached yourself to this story and you can't get out of the suffering from it. Right, and attachment causes great suffering, right, I mean, that's one of the things that they say in Buddhism. Right, like attachment is, I think, the greatest, one of the greatest causes of suffering, right, and you and I talk about that all the time with authenticity versus attachment, right, right, right, who are you and is it different than what you're attached to? Right, because you become attached to different things but they don't feed your soul, right, and how would mental suffering from this attachment, how would that make you feel good?
Speaker 1:It can't, right, it can't, it can't. Let's move on to practical strategies to overcome rehearsing and hashing. So we've defined it, we've talked about it, tell them you're a big fan.
Speaker 2:Well, I always talk about the mindfulness piece, right?
Speaker 1:And I said that to you.
Speaker 2:I said people are probably tired of hearing about it, but for me, mindfulness is a tool to be in the present moment, to not want something, to not not want something, but to just be OK right now. Right, I mean yes, like here's an example. Right, I really wanted a Breville air fryer, but I didn't let it like take over, like I couldn't have another one. I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to settle for anything else. I must have this. I was like whatever, right? And then it was there and it looked me in the face today yeah, right, but it's like you can't be attached to things. You have to detach yourself from and even from your thinking. Right, stop doing these things, be in the moment that is happening, right now.
Speaker 1:I just want to pause you for a second and just say I love you very much. I love you and you're very cute. You talking about that Breville air fryer. Your cheeks got just so rosy. Well, I'm having a hot flash. Oh, it's menopause. Okay, I take it all back, but I still love you.
Speaker 2:I've been having like a massive hot flash since last night, Don't you remember? We were walking down the street and you're like it's nice and cool out, and I was like touch my head, Like my hairline was filled with sweat and you said, oh, no wonder you've not been so pleasant lately. I was like, oh, You're like I wouldn't feel good either.
Speaker 1:I'd be a grump too, but go ahead, but go ahead, go ahead. So I didn't mean to interrupt you, but it's just staying in the present moment, right it's.
Speaker 2:Stop wanting things, stop not wanting things, stop wishing for a different outcome, stop attaching yourself to things and just realizing that in this moment, right now, everything is exactly the way that it is supposed to be. Even if it's miserable, it will pass, right? I think I used an example to you in the car when we were driving up to the Finger Lakes of Ram Dass, talking about this picture. Do you remember this? If you take like a three by five picture in a frame and it's just clouds and gloom and rain, and that might be like right here, say above our house, but if you were to zoom out across America, there's sun somewhere, yeah, right.
Speaker 2:So it's not that every single moment is going to be this gloom and doom and cloud out in the universe somewhere. There's sunshine in this world, right, and so it's like. You know. The zooming in is in this moment here. Yes, this world, right, and so it's like you know. The zooming in is in this moment here. Yes, it's gray and it's raining and it's dark, but if you look, you know, you know 50 or 100 mile radius.
Speaker 1:That's not the way it always is yeah, yeah, your your mentors um tara brock and jack cornfield, uh really focus on staying, uh grounded in the present um, because it interrupts the cycle of rehearsing and rehashing to your point.
Speaker 2:It does and I teach a lot of my clients like. I have a young client that has a lot of irrational fears. She's only 12 and I'm sure it comes from at home but I can't really get to the bottom of it because her mother always lurks near the session. But you know, I always tell her. You know, a really helpful thing is to say breathe in my mind is calm, Breathe out, my body's relaxed. Breathe in my mind is calm, Breathe out my body is relaxed, because you're giving a word to it and you're just doing it and then you're becoming more present and then you start to forget about what was bothering you, what was on your mind, what you were kind of starting to rehearse or rehash bothering you what was on your mind, what you were kind of starting to rehearse or rehash.
Speaker 1:James Sexton, who we listened to last week and I want to, and I'll find it in the notes and I'll attribute it to the right person in the notes talked about a mindfulness exercise that we both found helped you to stay present. So, if you have a partner or a person in your life that you love but they frustrate you from time to time which is any marriage, as I always tell you, any marriage or any family.
Speaker 2:I tell everybody, all my clients, for everything that I don't like about my husband. I'm sure he could find one that he doesn't like about me.
Speaker 1:Or, as somebody once told me many, many years ago and I don't do it anymore where I was complaining about you before we got married, the person stopped me, and this is a person that liked me very much and said to me stop me, nice woman, put her hand on my shoulder and was like Cleveland, you're no prize either.
Speaker 2:And look, he married me anyway.
Speaker 1:But but you know, you married me anyway, knowing that I was no prize and so I will never. To me you're a prize, but I will never forget that and I love, and it made me laugh and it made me and I love you too and it made me realize. But one of the but the mindfulness exercise that he talked about there is if you have somebody in your life and this comes, hold them, hug them and as you hug them, imagine that this is the last time that you ever going to hug them again, and in fact, imagine that you're at their funeral hugging their dead corpse and think about that for a moment and then yeah, I think one of the things that we think about a lot is that if, if there's conflict, we never leave the house upset.
Speaker 2:If there's conflict, we never leave the house upset. Nope, because I don't ever want to. I'll always remember that those young police officers that died a few years ago, how his wife said they had like a huge argument before he left for work and how she never, ever got to talk to him again. Yeah, and that was really impactful for me. But I thought you know, even if things aren't great, the problem is you're not really mad at your partner. You're upset because it opened a wound in you. It opened, so stop taking it out on other people and, like you know, tell people that you love them and hug them and be there with them in that moment and leave it behind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, don't rehearse. If you're in a relationship, don't rehearse and don't rehash.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just be there and love the person and say you know, because the thing is is like when you get upset, you're really and that's what I try to tell couples You're not upset with them, you're upset because whatever they did opened the wound in you, Right, and you can't go back and change it. But you can go forward in a different way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and as and as that exercise continues, he was like imagine that they were dead, think about what that would mean to you if that person was dead.
Speaker 2:and then oh, james sexton said that, I think yeah but he got that from someone else because we were listening to it in that podcast.
Speaker 1:We were listening and I want to attribute it to the right person. But he got it from a from another, from a from a buddhist monk. And then that monk said now imagine it was um chich tat nam or whatever. I can't remember how you pronounce his name, but yes, I think that's who it was you're reminding me now and then he was like now, imagine that that person is suddenly alive, and how much you're thankful that they're alive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and so true, yeah right, because we take so much for granted, because we're so busy, constantly striving for the next thing, that we're not here. I mean, this week I'm trying to get you to buy me that 70 acre property up in the Finger Lakes, because I don't even want to see a neighbor some days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some days and we're inundated by, oh my God, it's like the only person I want to see every day is you honestly Like, seriously and the queen mom. Oh, I know she's awesome, she's so awesome and I only want to see you. But the people that love me in this house, are you a little bit the Queen, mum?
Speaker 2:Oh, the Queen, Mum loved you. Remember when you were so sad the other night she gave you a hug.
Speaker 1:Yes, and definitely and definitely Betty. Oh my God, betty, that's not a person, that's your cat. Yeah Well, betty's a person, but we got the old Listen without digressing too much. Old lady brigade on the left of us. Remember when this chick wrote the letter to the city on our behalf for the house oh, that was two, that was two doors down two doors down about the tree, that I told her.
Speaker 1:Listen, I already called the city. But listen, I'm rehashing, I'm gonna. This is an example of rehashing. But I'm like what are you doing? I already told you. And she's like oh, I'm so sorry, I'm embarrassed.
Speaker 2:She's laughing anyway. Listen, we don't need to talk about her. She walks her cat on a leash.
Speaker 1:She walks her cat on a leash that lets you know. So I'm going to move on, I'm not going to rest. I'm just giving you an example of rehearsing and rehashing for comedy value. Albert Ellis talks about mindfulness and once again, when we, once we become aware and right and everyone I talk to, and this is why mindfulness is important Once we become aware that we're rehearsing and rehashing, and once we become aware of irrational threats, through mindfulness we can use rational emotive behavior techniques or CBT or whatever it is of therapy to challenge and replace those irrational thoughts, that those irrational thoughts or that irrational rehearsing and rehashing, with some more constructive beliefs, and what would those be? As a counselor, what would you?
Speaker 2:What would more constructive beliefs?
Speaker 1:be, yeah, like what would? What would be? What would be something that you would tell a client Right, I would. As you think on that, I'm going to say what Ellis would do. Ellis would advocate that you dispute the irrational belief in your head, which is the D.
Speaker 2:Well, I always tell people, just like remind yourself, it's not true, it hasn't happened.
Speaker 1:Has it ever happened to you?
Speaker 2:No, if it hasn't ever happened to you, why would it happen now?
Speaker 1:Right, and that's what Ella says. So you have to. The D in the ABCD model is the D is for dispute, and so you have to dispute that irrational thought, that rehearsing to why what you just said, which is, what evidence do I have that this outcome will actually happen.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And the thing is is like I tell people to so what if you don't get the job? Yeah, like, so what? Right, there's other jobs, right, right, you don't have to sit there and, you know, be like upset. And I mean, of course you know it's OK to be upset and it's OK to not be okay, but the thing is it's not the be all and end all if something doesn't work the way that you wanted it to work out Right.
Speaker 1:And so when we think go, when we think about Albert Ellis and we think about Tara Brock. Tara Brock talks about the activating event as the first arrow, and then Albert Ellis helps us to avoid that second arrow, which is the rehearsing and rehashing, by thinking through what you just said, which was yeah, just it's, it's OK, it is OK, it's OK the way that it is, and it may happen that way.
Speaker 2:It may not happen that way.
Speaker 1:What do you think about self-compassion? How does self-compassion help?
Speaker 2:I think it's hard for people to have self-compassion, but I do always tell my clients be kind to yourself. I mean self-compassion is accepting yourself the way that you are and being OK with the way that things are happening. It's hard for people because people judge themselves and people have a lot of voices. Whenever my client tells me something, I'm said whose voice is that? Is that your voice telling you or is that the voice of someone else telling you that's what you have to do? Right, right, right, because that's that's the truth. Right, whose voice is?
Speaker 1:it. If it's someone else's voice, then don't worry about it. If it's your own voice, then why is it telling you that? And Brene Brown talks about that a lot in their works. Gabor Mate once again also talks about letting go and acceptance Right. And Gabor Mate talks about mindfulness practices that that help us to accept the things that. Or it's like almost like the serenity prayer. Let me accept the things that, or it's like almost like the serenity prayer. Let me accept the things that I cannot change.
Speaker 2:Right and know that that's okay, that they're a part of us, right. It's also like the IFS model. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but you know that's. The parts work right. There's going to be a part of us right that there's always going to be two opposing parts really Right. And I used it as an example with a client. Like someone with eating issues, I have a client who has some binge eating issues and I said to her right, there's always going to be that part of her that she goes and eats Cause there's a part of her going like oh, it'll make you feel better. It's like the devil and the angel on your shoulder, Right. So there the other part comes out and is like what's wrong with you? You're so fat, you're so stupid, why did you do that? You keep doing that. You're always going to be fat, right? So it's like we always have these opposing parts of ourself. So you have to be okay with the parts and learn to let them all live together in harmony.
Speaker 1:yeah and we're not telling folks to not worry about the future because you do have to plan you. You do have to. As I told the client, there's a difference between well, we're doing a lot of future planning now, and there's a difference between we're not obsessing over it? No, because there's a difference between, and I want, and I want you to answer this question what's the difference between catastrophizing and strategizing, which is what I actually?
Speaker 2:catastrophizing is planning for the worst right, and strategizing is like how can I get from point A to point B, conquer the fears, climb out of the rabbit hole, stop being the victim and get to where I want to go?
Speaker 1:Yes, and Mate talks about that right the past the past that we cannot change, the future that we cannot predict.
Speaker 2:And it doesn't even make sense to predict the future because, honestly, like you could not be here tomorrow. People worry about that, right, my client, whose mother is very ill, worries about that so much and I'm like you know she could die in a car accident, right, like these things happen. And so it's like you sit here and you plan for all these things and you experience all these feelings of like, guilt and fear and shame and, at the end of the day, like everyone's going to die. So, like, is it helpful or is it not?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's one of the things James Sexton talks about, so comfortable right now. Yeah, well, you got my feet up on your lap If this were a video podcast, people would see how relaxed people would rub my feet too. Oh, maybe I should give you a foot rub while we're there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, maybe that'll put you in a great mood today.
Speaker 1:We've had a lovely day, but you had like an inch of flop sweat in your hair and it was crazy. That was yesterday. That was crazy. I told you that was great. It was like we were walking down the street.
Speaker 2:You couldn't believe it, I could not believe it. I was dying yesterday. And then you put the air conditioner on and the back came off and it was like blowing hot air in the room.
Speaker 1:felt like I was in a sauna to all of our listeners that are going through menopause I am here for you. I feel your pain. Lindsay feels her pain.
Speaker 2:I do. I feel your pain. And today, just so you know, I took a cold shower and I thought, oh wow, maybe I just need a cold plunge pool in the back because I was sweating in the cold shower. I was like this is ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I have so much sympathy for you and I'm we're digressing for a minute.
Speaker 2:Right now I'm sitting here sweating. Yeah, I'm sweating. Well, I told you to open the door, but you know I mean, I'm sleeping in like shorts and a tank top and I'm sweating. I have a fan blowing on me. The window's open. I'm dying. Right now I'm sitting here, I'm sweating.
Speaker 1:Last night I had an inch of sweat in my hair right after I flat ironed it when we record, when we record the next episode, let's open the studio door and get some air in it.
Speaker 2:Maybe that'll get rid of some of the echo. Maybe we do it during the day, while the queen mom is at school? Oh, maybe.
Speaker 1:No, you're a little bit behind. We might need to record a second one. Well, I'm going to open the door then, yeah, you can open the door. But just thinking about what you're saying, and I'm so hot and she's a woman about your age, and I was like, don't worry, I got it. And then I sent the head of HVAC and he we were laughing about it because he has a wife who's similar age and he said he talked to her and he was like, don't worry, ma'am, I've got it.
Speaker 2:And they cooled her office off by like this morning we were going to Wegmans and I got in the car and I was like, don't be mad, cause it was cool. It was cool and it was like 60 degrees out and I was like don't be mad. And you're like what? I'm like I need the AC. You and the queen mom were like we're just going to go inside and get a jacket and you both went in the house and got a jacket.
Speaker 1:Well, I came in the car with a coat and then the queen mom was like oh, Because I said I need the air and she goes what she's like now I understand why Cleveland got into the car with a jacket. Let me now go get one. She's awesome Six o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2:Well, don't worry, because tomorrow you're going to be out with her at 5 am. Oh for the senior. She's got to be at the senior sunrise for 540 or something in the Bronx.
Speaker 1:That's going to be very interesting, but anyway, we digress. Let's get ready to wrap this one up. So what is this?
Speaker 2:is what our life is like, though this is like a comedy show all the time, all the time. The topics change, we go off course and then we come back and we're like what were you saying? But isn't that life? I can't remember. But but isn't that life? No, it's great. I mean, I love you, I love, I love our life together. I think it's great. Um, you know, I can't wait for you to buy me those 70 acres, 70 acres.
Speaker 2:So, that I don't have to ever see a neighbor 70 acres. I told like somebody today who was like I hate it here. I said, well, I'll buy, I'll build you a cabin on my 70 acres, but I'm down for it if you, if you'll buy it for me. Oh we'll, we'll figure it out. So it doesn't have a toilet though.
Speaker 1:No, we need, we'd have to work on that. I need Starlink, I need Starlink. Oh, I need indoor plumbing. I need indoor plumbing and I need.
Speaker 2:I could use solar. I don't need electric.
Speaker 1:Solar panel, solar panels and that's indoor plumbing, those compostable toilets, how those work. Anyway, let's talk about that after, because I was actually thinking about researching that today, so we'll talk about it.
Speaker 2:Thank you guys for letting us digress for about five minutes. I am not editing. He's never gonna agree to have a compostable toilet anyway, so we don't even have to discuss it later I'm never editing any of this out, so, as we wrap up, what are some actionable tips?
Speaker 2:I'm, as the rebt meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate. I'm about to send you on a retreat as a graduation gift and you're going to love it, because you need to go meditate. But meditate, be in the moment, sit there, feel all the feels. You know, people tell me I can't meditate because my mind won't stop. It doesn't need to, the mind doesn't stop. Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:But the thing is is that often my teacher, sarah Swati, always says what comes up in those moments is probably the stuff you need to work on, right, right. So if you're thinking about things from the past, you have to work on not rehashing, right. And if you're thinking what's going on in the future, you just stop rehearsing and just let it be Right and let things happen Right. And I and I'm very lucky to have a real like a group, like a sangha of people who live authentically Right, right and who I have a lot in common with and who just really don't care about what other people think and just kind of go with the flow and do the things that they love to do. I'm very lucky to have that, because I think a lot of people don't even know who they are. Yeah, oh, oh, my God. I think most people don't know who I are, like I know me, like I could go live somewhere in the middle of nowhere and I could like leave only if I feel like having a social interaction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the problem is, and part of a huge part of the problem and I'm going to go back to this idea of narrative therapy is most people do not know who they are in the story, because most people are living somebody else's story, right, most people Right.
Speaker 2:That's what I was saying earlier. Right Like, whose voice is that?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Whose voice is that? Because you and I have both lived the voices of our parents. Right, you have to do this, you have to do this, you need money, you need this, you need that, you need this, and I see that with clients. And here's the thing, right.
Speaker 2:I didn't listen to, still able to have a household and afford the things, have like more money than ever before. Well, that's because you're not spending it all in the city and buying clothes. That's true, the clothes were the biggest issue, I think I was actually thinking about buying a one shirt.
Speaker 1:We'll talk about it later.
Speaker 2:No, you know what, when you take all those things out of the basement that are from when you were heavier and you put them on, the church, porch is opening this week for donations. Actually, I saw it on the website for the community. I would definitely. If you bring your stuff to the thrift shop this week, then you can buy some clothes. I definitely will. I'll give you an allowance. Oh, I like that. What do I get in return? No, go ahead this is a family show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, go ahead, it's a family show and he gets embarrassed. So, and and and the other point I want you to bring up how about self-compassion? Well, how does that help?
Speaker 2:Well, I always tell people like what would you say if your best friend were in this situation? Right, like, if you had a friend experiencing the same thing, what would you say? Yeah, what would you do? Right, because most of them are like, oh, I wouldn't care, it wouldn't bother me, and I'm like so, then why would it bother other people?
Speaker 1:Right. Isn't that crazy about folks? We watch 90 Day Fiance.
Speaker 2:People think people are watching them all the time, and I actually did an experiment. I don't know if I told you this because I hate going to the gym, because I'm chubbier than most people in the gym. No, you're not. Well, I mean in my eyes.
Speaker 1:In your eyes that when we went to Nashville, how many women were younger than you, bigger than you, and I actually told this and very confident in what they were wearing and very confident in what they were like and I'm like woo and it goes listen like, just because they make it in your size doesn't mean you should wear it, as I say in the Bible, just because all things Not to be critical, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Just because all things are lawful don't mean that all things are possible, and but we're digressing for a minute. But how many women were younger than you in their twenties, right, and?
Speaker 2:so what I'm? But my point being that, like I did an experiment on this, when I walked into the gym and I was like I'm going to look around and see how many people watch me walk in, there were none, except for the lady at the front desk. That was like good morning, yeah Right, and that's the thing. We think people are watching us. If you're watching other people, then you need to get a life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you need to get present in yours and if you're judging other people, then you have to figure out why you're judging them and what, what you need to do to work on yourself so that you're not looking at other people in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things I wanted to say about 90 day fiance which always bugs me out, especially when they do the couples tell all episodes is some of the people that when you watch their stories and maybe it's the magic of editing that are so clueless in their own lives Really have some really poignant and ingenious observations and good advice for some of the other couples which is right.
Speaker 2:But isn't it always easier to dish it out than to take it? Of course it is Right. Of course it is. People say you can dish it out, but you can't take it. Look at.
Speaker 1:Ashley in the tell all she was given some salient advice, but when people talk step to her about what her deal, well, she's a little kooky. Yeah, she, she got all upset.
Speaker 2:Um, but we we're digressing again um, because we haven't been on in so long, we have so much to talk about. Because we haven't watched tv. We just, you know, we had like a couple of weeks where we just caught up on everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were just traveling. The two things I want to close out with on actionable tips are both RABT related, right? So I believe in journaling, I believe in narrative therapy. So when you catch yourself rehearsing and rehashing, you can use a RABT framework to write down what the activating event was, which is A, your belief behind it, which is B, the consequence, the singular consequence, or maybe sometimes consequences, and then dispute the irrational belief, which is D, and here's the key, and arrive at a new, healthier belief, which is E. Right, so that is the Albert Ellis model.
Speaker 2:And now, with the reframing, I mean, I honestly think the healthier belief is like it just really doesn't matter, because you know what the universe is going to give you, what it wants to give you, right? Sarah Swati said something to me recently when I was talking to her, where she said when the karma is ripe, the fruit falls from the tree, right. So like there's like some higher power out there, right. That's like when things are ready, right. I mean people say things always happen for a reason. That's why we ran into the Breville today.
Speaker 2:But you know what I'm saying? Like it's like when things are meant to happen, they happen. Right Right. We have no, not like we don't have the nothing is promised. Right Right, there's no guarantee of anything in the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things that made it easy for me to leave and this is something that you always talk about Well, that place, you know, you always act like that place is going to be, I mean, everybody that looks you up can find that place, but anyway yeah. Well, I'm not going to say it because I don't need to get sued for defamation, but that place is going to. That place has been in existence now for over a hundred, and it'll be in existence.
Speaker 2:It'll be Without, and it'll be in existence, it'll be Without you. Like I told you, if you didn't leave there, right I said, if you died they would write, your obituary wouldn't be written, your job would be posted and it wouldn't even be written yet.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right, like your job would be posted and they'd be like, let's find someone to fill Cleveland's role. Oh, he wasn't buried yet, doesn't matter, let. That's the thing. When you look at people in that toxic environment, they are listening to the voices of other people, right, they are constantly rehearsing and rehashing, and it's just, it's not helpful and it creates a toxic environment, it creates toxic households and it's just, it's not, it's not healthy for people. Yeah, and like just be in the moment. I mean, really, people just need to meditate, like if everybody like I really want to start this whole mindful Bronx movement, because I think people in the Bronx, especially like I mean, how many times do I see people like have a fender bender and they start throwing punches?
Speaker 1:and it's not even worth throwing punches.
Speaker 2:It's like there's not even a ding in your car. Now the light's green, Can we go?
Speaker 1:Can we go? Yeah, I just yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like stop it. Like stop. It's like not even that important, like is it like there's such a level of impulsivity that comes with this emotional mess. Yeah, that's going on because people aren't present, right like because if you stopped and took a breath before you were ready to pull a gun on someone, you might change your mind I think you would change your mind.
Speaker 2:I know you would change your mind right because is it worth, like, you do that. And then you spend the rest of your life behind bars, right? And then you got a lot of time to think, a lot of time to be mindful, right, like. But it's, yeah, it's, it's the world's a mess because nobody's mindful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you see it when folks drive and would definitely talk about that in another episode. And one of the last techniques I want to do that's RABT related is reframing. You can use RABT's disputation process to challenge catastrophic thoughts. For example, instead of thinking I will fail this presentation, you can reframe it to. I am prepared and I will do my best. There was a TV show many years ago called the Black Sheep Squadron. That came on in the 1970s and it was an episode about a pilot who was so worried about dying and he was just like catastrophizing it. And his captain said to him is like hey, bro, if you go up there and you are convinced that you're going to die, chances are you're going to die, right, and so we have to rehearsing and rehashing. And, as we conclude, I want you to think about what is the story that you're rehearsing and rehashing for? Is it a story that even suits you? Is it a story that fits you?
Speaker 2:Is it a line with you?
Speaker 1:Is it even a line with you, and why are you rehearsing and rehashing it?
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, that's really important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, lindsay, you have any final thoughts on this one as we wrap up?
Speaker 2:No, I think, just be in the moment. Be one as we wrap up. No, I think, just be in the moment.
Speaker 1:Be here now right, you should read that book. It's good, I have it on the bookshelf. No, definitely do it. So for so. So, so, from final takeaways that we re that we talked about on this are you know, we really want you to think about these things, um, and be insightful and think about how you can change your life by stopping the rehearsing and rehashing. Some books that you can read are Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach, A Guide to Rational Living by Albert Ellis and Robert A Harper, the Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown, and when the Body Says no. And when the body says no is so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people do not listen to their gut.
Speaker 1:Oh, isn't that so crazy yeah.
Speaker 2:You and I talk about that all the time People, because what happens is people are so disconnected. There's such a disconnect between the brain and the body, and your body is the thing that tells you what to do, initially, and then you overthink it, right, I mean, think about it in tragic situations, like somebody might be like, oh, I should run, and then like, oh, I'll just wait and see what someone else tells me to do, and then they're dead. Yes, right, we don't listen to our gut and we have to be more tuned in. And, and the thing is, is that mindful component and really learning to recognize your emotions helps you to connect the body with the brain? Right, and I work a lot, especially with my really young client on that. Like, when I ask her what she feels, she always talks about what she's thinking, like she gets mad at herself and I said, but what do you feel? And then she'll be like, oh, my heart starts beating really fast, and then my hands are sweaty, right, and I'm like, right, so, like, listen to those things.
Speaker 1:Isn't it so weird that people don't? You know? Your body almost has a mind of its own, and if you were to listen to your body first, when you were in a situation and your body's like yo, I think we need to get out of here, or I think we need to shut up, or I don't think we need to talk about this anymore. You should listen to that impulse.
Speaker 2:Absolutely A hundred percent. But we don't because we get in the head.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we rehearse and rehash. Yeah, we rehearse and rehash. Some other things that you can listen to are the Unlocking Us podcast by Brene Brown. There's an episode of the Tim Ferriss Show that Gabor Amate is on. Oh, there is. I've never heard it. Yeah, there is some apps that you can use, which is Headspace and the REB Toolkit.
Speaker 2:You don't even have to like pay for an app.
Speaker 1:Oh, where's tell folks Just?
Speaker 2:meditate or do the 40-day free mindfulness program from tyra brock and jack cornville. If you go to jack cornfield's website jackcornfieldcom, he has like a whole subscription service, but he also, if you listen, he has a section there with dharma talks. He has a whole section of meditations and they're all free. Yeah, you just click on them and they're titled. So if you have anxiety, if you can't sleep, if something happened, whatever is, there's a whole list of them. But I mean, I love Dharma talks.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you ever really listened to any of them. I think you did during my silent retreat when I was laying down. Yes, I did Listening, but it's really very interesting. It you can. You know you can listen to any of these things but just go and you don't even have to pay. But Tara Brock and Jack Kornfield have a free 40 day mindfulness training program that teaches you how to practice mindfulness. They send you an email every day and it's like 10 to 15 minutes. I always tell my clients put it on when you lay in bed, right when the thoughts start running wild, put a meditation on, because often that other person's voice that's helping you breathe brings you back in the moment and helps you to relax.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much it. This episode was designed to not only inform you as listeners, but to equip you with practical tools from both RABT and mindfulness techniques, and we want you to recognize and break the cycle of rehearsing and rehashing, and we want you to foster a healthier and more present, focused mindset. As always, thank you for listening. Did you have anything to add? No, as always, this has been Cleveland and Lindsay and, as always, we thank you for listening to the show. We'd like you to subscribe. Hey, we have a feature now that you can text us directly.
Speaker 2:Oh, we do. Yeah, look at that. Who knew? Look at that.
Speaker 1:It must go to your phone, maybe that's okay, I've told you when we got here, you never check your text, I never check my text. Well, you got all these people calling us the solar people. The solar people called today to be like, hey, no there's no solar.
Speaker 2:You know where the solar is going to be, where In the field on my 70 acres. They called Carry on.
Speaker 1:They called yesterday to ask if we'd still be present for our 12 o'clock appointment today. That we'd never made, and so I never. What? Yeah, I never answered that back.
Speaker 2:And they didn't come.
Speaker 1:It's 623 now, yeah, and we weren't home anyway.
Speaker 2:No, we weren't.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The Queen. Mum was here.
Speaker 1:The Queen, mum, and we were at the philadelphia, anyway, yeah.
Speaker 2:So let's go, cause I'm we gotta. I know we gotta do it, so we gotta wrap up. I gotta use my new Breville.
Speaker 1:So we would like you to subscribe. Hey, it's get to know the devil at gmailcom, at gmailcom, and, and if you have any topics that you'd liked us to talk about, if you want to come and talk to us and hang out here. Yeah, yeah, we've got a brand new kitchen we're going to be fixing it.
Speaker 2:We're going to have Steve on from the um birds, oh, birds Eye Hollow.
Speaker 1:Our friend Steve, yeah, we got to reach out to him. Yeah, I got my friend, michael McConnell, who runs the mastermind group, would like to be on the show. That's awesome. And so we got a bunch of. We got a bunch of guests, but I think you guys like it most when it's just us, it's just mom and dad chatting it up. Yeah, at least that's what the Queen, mum and Betty tell me.
Speaker 1:This has been Cleveland and Lindsay, and this has been another episode of the Devil you Don't Know. Thank you, on the first snowy day, I will melt away, cause I'll be with you, cause I'll be with you.
